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by Jyotisdad on 23 March 2010 - 11:03
Hello everyone, I am relatively new to the site and have spent a lot of time browsing through the posts submitted so far.
I rescued a ‘street dog’ some two years ago and she is a fine looking creature and an excellent companion for me. Two months ago I purchased a female GSD who has a better pedigree than I have myself. And so far we are getting along great.
I have a few questions to put and I would very much love to hear your comments. Incidentally, although she is beautifully marked etc, she is a pet, I have no interest in showing her, and again she is a pet and companion for me and my other dog (Female)
Firstly, I have been told by my vet that the dog is too heavy for her age (15kg at 4 months, she is not fat and appears very well proportioned (Better than myself)) and I should change her diet. On being asked what food she was being given, I replied “Royal Canin for Puppies” She told me to change to another brand.
When I suggested to her, (the vet) That I would feed her Pedigree Chicken and Milk Biscuit type, she was quite abrupt and her manner gave the impression that she should not be given this under any circumstances. She then gave me two alternatives to chose from (Which I have chosen to ignore.) My reasoning was that she probably had some collusion with other dog food manufacturers; I have toured the internet extensively and find it very hard to find information on the matter which is not financially orientated. Advice please.
Question:
1. Is there a proven case against the Pedigree brand, content or quality?
2. In any case can anyone suggest something more suitable as a commercial dog food?
3. Perhaps someone can suggest what commercial food should not be fed to my dogs?
4. I hear that vitamin ‘c’ is a good supplement for dogs, ideas for or against?
5. I follow the amount and regime suggested on the food containers, Jyoti (The GSD) devours her food like a shark and is always looking for more, follows me everywhere as if tied to me, is this normal?
NB: I am not new to owning dogs; I have had 4 Dobermans a Shiatsu and many cats and never had any feeding problems with any of them, but, I now live in India and with the high temps 24/7/360, I have the feeling that a British diet may not be suitable.
Thanking you in anticipation.
by ZIN on 24 March 2010 - 15:03
I have just started my 9 & 6 year old gsd on mostly raw diet. There are some quality kibble dog food out there but you have to ask yourself what does my dog really need in a dog food. Search these forums and look @ feeding raw or what kibble do you feed and you will find all the information you will need. Just to get you started .... READ READ READ ingredients on the bags of dog food the first 3 ingredients should NOT say grains,wheat,byproducts fillers... You will not find good dry dog food @ grocery stores.
Here are a few good dry dog foods to start you off... TASTE OF THE WILD, INNOVA, ORIJEN, BLUE BUFFALO,just to name a few but again you need to take time and read previous posts. good luck
Here are a few good dry dog foods to start you off... TASTE OF THE WILD, INNOVA, ORIJEN, BLUE BUFFALO,just to name a few but again you need to take time and read previous posts. good luck
by hodie on 25 March 2010 - 00:03
Hello,
Royal Canin is an excellent food, as produced in the U.S., Europe and some other countries. Is your Royal Canin imported into India? Or is it made there?
15 kg for your pup may or may not be too heavy. I would have to see a photo to say whether she is or is not too heavy. Most vets like dogs who are much heavier than they should be. About 5 months old, to 6 months, I stop feeding puppy food and feed only twice a day to reduce the amount the dog is getting. I match the amount of food to what I see in the dog. You want to keep your puppy lean. This means that in the next month or two you want to see her loose a little of her puppy fat and have a waistline, and also be able to visualize the last rib when she is panting. Remember that her joints are still soft, so if she is carrying excessive weight, that may compromise her joint health.
I have no idea what foods are available in India, but generally speaking, a food with 24-27 % protein and 11-14% fat content should be sufficient. Again, watch the dog. She will tell you if her food is not correct in that she will develop a dry coat, at the very least.
Personally, I do not believe in any supplements unless there is a specific reason for giving something. Vitamin C is often suggested for people and dogs, but most recent scientific studies show little to no benefit. As for Pedigree brand foods, if they are similar to what we have here in the U.S., they are inferior foods to some other brands, including Royal Canin. If you like send me a PM here with ingredients of the foods and I can give you my opinion.
As for your pup following you everywhere, that is exactly what you want her to do. You will also want to start training and socializing her immediately with other people so she becomes a good dog who is not a threat to people. There is an active group of GSD enthusiasts in your country. Find out about them and consider joining them. With the temperatures in your country, it can be a challenge to keep the dog healthy and not too hot.
The proof of whether the diet is correct is in the observations you make of the dog. If she is active, lean, happy and has stamina, she is doing just fine.
Best wishes.
Royal Canin is an excellent food, as produced in the U.S., Europe and some other countries. Is your Royal Canin imported into India? Or is it made there?
15 kg for your pup may or may not be too heavy. I would have to see a photo to say whether she is or is not too heavy. Most vets like dogs who are much heavier than they should be. About 5 months old, to 6 months, I stop feeding puppy food and feed only twice a day to reduce the amount the dog is getting. I match the amount of food to what I see in the dog. You want to keep your puppy lean. This means that in the next month or two you want to see her loose a little of her puppy fat and have a waistline, and also be able to visualize the last rib when she is panting. Remember that her joints are still soft, so if she is carrying excessive weight, that may compromise her joint health.
I have no idea what foods are available in India, but generally speaking, a food with 24-27 % protein and 11-14% fat content should be sufficient. Again, watch the dog. She will tell you if her food is not correct in that she will develop a dry coat, at the very least.
Personally, I do not believe in any supplements unless there is a specific reason for giving something. Vitamin C is often suggested for people and dogs, but most recent scientific studies show little to no benefit. As for Pedigree brand foods, if they are similar to what we have here in the U.S., they are inferior foods to some other brands, including Royal Canin. If you like send me a PM here with ingredients of the foods and I can give you my opinion.
As for your pup following you everywhere, that is exactly what you want her to do. You will also want to start training and socializing her immediately with other people so she becomes a good dog who is not a threat to people. There is an active group of GSD enthusiasts in your country. Find out about them and consider joining them. With the temperatures in your country, it can be a challenge to keep the dog healthy and not too hot.
The proof of whether the diet is correct is in the observations you make of the dog. If she is active, lean, happy and has stamina, she is doing just fine.
Best wishes.
by Jyotisdad on 25 March 2010 - 08:03
Hi ZIN and hodie and thank you both for your replies
Where I am in India the temperature and other factors, feeding raw meat products would be a bit of a logistical nightmare. I also have my doubts on this matter as to how I would proportion the amount of protein; roughage etc. and I feel that the research that has gone into the manufacture of commercial dog foods by the larger and better known suppliers would be better than my well intentioned but unprofessional attempts to guess just how much of each ingredient and how often to test this on my dogs.
The brands available in India are as follows
1) Pedigree-- 2) Royal Canin --3) Eukanuba--4) Propac--5) Iams-- 6) Propet
I can find the pedigree and the Royal Canin (both of which my vet says to discontinue with) the others are proving to be rather elusive. (I used IAMS when I was in the UK)
The Royal Canin is manufactured in France and exported to India
Pedigree is made in India, (I have my doubts about the quality)
I have telephoned the breeder from whom I purchased the GSD and he agrees that she is probably overweight, as the others from the same litter are between 13 and 14kgs, all females. On the other hand the dam was a very large dog, probably larger than the sire.
(Puppy)Canin Protein 32% Fat 14%
(Puppy)Pedigree I think was 28% protein and (I am guessing) also 14% fat
Incidentally:
4KG of Royal Canin costs 1300 Rupees (£ = 68 rupees $ = 46 rupees)
10KG of pedigree costs 1200 Rupees
I am no worried as to the cost but does the price reflect the quality (Like Chinese junk)
When I bought her at two months her forelegs did splay out a little, again I am not worried about that, but, from what you say, perhaps I should be concerned, my vet thinks they will correct, and she even took a photograph of the dog to show her colleagues (her husband is also a vet in another location).
Her coat? It looks like a TV advert for some outrageously costly ladies hair product. I wish mine was as good. Perhaps I should try the Royal Canin myself?
Thanks again both for taking the trouble to answer, it has helped.
Where I am in India the temperature and other factors, feeding raw meat products would be a bit of a logistical nightmare. I also have my doubts on this matter as to how I would proportion the amount of protein; roughage etc. and I feel that the research that has gone into the manufacture of commercial dog foods by the larger and better known suppliers would be better than my well intentioned but unprofessional attempts to guess just how much of each ingredient and how often to test this on my dogs.
The brands available in India are as follows
1) Pedigree-- 2) Royal Canin --3) Eukanuba--4) Propac--5) Iams-- 6) Propet
I can find the pedigree and the Royal Canin (both of which my vet says to discontinue with) the others are proving to be rather elusive. (I used IAMS when I was in the UK)
The Royal Canin is manufactured in France and exported to India
Pedigree is made in India, (I have my doubts about the quality)
I have telephoned the breeder from whom I purchased the GSD and he agrees that she is probably overweight, as the others from the same litter are between 13 and 14kgs, all females. On the other hand the dam was a very large dog, probably larger than the sire.
(Puppy)Canin Protein 32% Fat 14%
(Puppy)Pedigree I think was 28% protein and (I am guessing) also 14% fat
Incidentally:
4KG of Royal Canin costs 1300 Rupees (£ = 68 rupees $ = 46 rupees)
10KG of pedigree costs 1200 Rupees
I am no worried as to the cost but does the price reflect the quality (Like Chinese junk)
When I bought her at two months her forelegs did splay out a little, again I am not worried about that, but, from what you say, perhaps I should be concerned, my vet thinks they will correct, and she even took a photograph of the dog to show her colleagues (her husband is also a vet in another location).
Her coat? It looks like a TV advert for some outrageously costly ladies hair product. I wish mine was as good. Perhaps I should try the Royal Canin myself?
Thanks again both for taking the trouble to answer, it has helped.
by hodie on 25 March 2010 - 14:03
If the RC is made in France, and imported, I would not worry. France is their home base and the food should be of high quality. I would not feed anything made in India at the moment, unless you personally know the calibre of the ingredients. Iams and Eukanuba are not my favorite foods, but if they are imported, they are likely to be higher grade too.
Again, if you can post a photo of your pup, I can tell you whether she looks too heavy. At 4 months old she should be starting soon to loose baby fat. And leaner is better, for a lot of reasons. If you prefer, PM me here and I will provide a private email address and you can email a photo I will be happy to look at. Many 12 week old pups I have had were 10 kg, or a little more, so I don't think she is grossly obese but the proof is in looking at the dog.
As for the splaying out comments, I am not sure what you are talking about here. Was this all the time? Or when she was stumbling around playing? She is a baby, so of course, she will not have great control of her legs at a young age, but they should not be splaying out if you mean the same thing as I interpret the term. If she was awkward, and gangly, that is one thing and not an issue likely. Also, where did you get this pup? The other question is whether your vet is trained in India or is trained in a European country. There are also many GSD people in India, and if you have concerns, I might talk to one of them.
For what it is worth, I feed Royal Canin and have so for years. It is a great food, but I would take her off puppy variety soon and switch to the variety they make especially for GSDs. The problem with their food, here in the U.S. as well, is that it is very expensive, but not as expensive as some other premium foods who have not been manufactured for years as has RC. They have a very competent research division and their foods are well researched and tested.
Good luck.
Again, if you can post a photo of your pup, I can tell you whether she looks too heavy. At 4 months old she should be starting soon to loose baby fat. And leaner is better, for a lot of reasons. If you prefer, PM me here and I will provide a private email address and you can email a photo I will be happy to look at. Many 12 week old pups I have had were 10 kg, or a little more, so I don't think she is grossly obese but the proof is in looking at the dog.
As for the splaying out comments, I am not sure what you are talking about here. Was this all the time? Or when she was stumbling around playing? She is a baby, so of course, she will not have great control of her legs at a young age, but they should not be splaying out if you mean the same thing as I interpret the term. If she was awkward, and gangly, that is one thing and not an issue likely. Also, where did you get this pup? The other question is whether your vet is trained in India or is trained in a European country. There are also many GSD people in India, and if you have concerns, I might talk to one of them.
For what it is worth, I feed Royal Canin and have so for years. It is a great food, but I would take her off puppy variety soon and switch to the variety they make especially for GSDs. The problem with their food, here in the U.S. as well, is that it is very expensive, but not as expensive as some other premium foods who have not been manufactured for years as has RC. They have a very competent research division and their foods are well researched and tested.
Good luck.
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