Things that make you go Hmmmmmmmmmm - Page 1

I just happened to stumble across this and found it quite interesting. Seems to match what a very knowlegable and experienced GSD guy, who has been to Europe many times, said to me in a recent conversation..... Take a look: http://www.bloedlijnen.nl/netscape/form_stamboom.php?ID=1672 This is the Dutch equivalent to our GSD Database. This is considered real, accurate pedigrees for dogs, not what is on paper. Now many of the dogs on this database have FCI pedigrees so you have to read between the lines. So we have a Van Haus Antverpa vs a Vom Haus Antwerpa? Nero looks like a decent size dog, with a longer body than tall. Malinios are supposed to be square.That tail looks awfully GSDish to me. Noe look back at the pedigree. You have Nero's daddy Arco. I have seen other pics of Arco. He was a large dog. Has a pretty good head on him, tan legs, and a dark back. Now take a look at Arco's parents. Othar is considered by many to be one of the best Malinios of all time. He was a little dog. I would guess 22 inches, 60-65 lbs. Convienently, Arco's dam has no picture. So a little malinios threw a 26-27 inch dog with a decent size head, tan legs, and dark back? Now for shits and grins, lets take a look at Orry vom Haus Antwerpa http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/391529.html From what I understand Antwerpa dogs are known for their prey drive. How many dogs have Orry or another Antwerpa dog behind them. What do ya'll think? I know this is may be a tough nut to swallow...........

Forgot to add, Look at the info on Nero. It says "imp" from belgium why the imp in quotes? It has his NHSB # and then his LOSH (belgian registration number below)it. In Holland you have the NHSB numbers (which I believe is the FCI recognized #) and then you have KNPV pedigree. Often the KNPV bred dogs magically receive FCI recognized registration numbers. The same thing happens in Belgium. The NVBK dogs magically recieve a ST. Huberts(FCI recognized registry) pedigree. That's just the way it is.

They are all in denial.

Van has always been the correct nomenclature for dutch and I believe belgium dogs - its a different language.

I do like some of the litter info on this site..however look at Elgos du Chemin des Plaines one of the most famous Malinois ever. If you notice the sire is Atos...ummmm last I knew Elgos was out of Bass de la Noaillerie. Do a search... all the pedigress that go back to Elgos show he is out of Bass not Atos... Only in Holland pedigrees you see Elgos out of Bass. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Only in Holland pedigrees you see Elgos out of ATOS....Mis-type

Nope,Elgos is out of Altos. Talk to some malinios people in the know. I have said this several times, if you get a dog from Belgium or Holland you don't really know what the breeding is unless the breeder is honest or you know people who are in know. This happens everywhere just the Belgians and, especially the Dutch, don't care as much to "keep the secret" Dutch and NVBK pedigrees are usually quite accurate. Which brings us to one point I am trying to make. Bass was a ring sport champion several times placing in the finals. I don't know Altos trial record, but that is not what he was known for. He is known as a producer, like his father, G'bibber (or G'vitou I forget). The point being is papers are largely about money. So breeder x has a dog that is world champion on the field but doesn't really produce all that great or wants to bring something else into the lines. Breeder x goes to breeder Y and does a little horse trading, uses breeder Y's producing stud dog but the papers say the stud dog is the great trial dog. Why do that? The pups sell better and your stud dog looks good. Again, this happens everywhere. Are we naive enough to believe this doesn't happen within the almighty SV? Why have seperate registries? Why does Holland have KNPV? Why does Belgium have the NVBK? Because they are more concerned with breeding pure working dogs. Ain't no KNPV or NVBK conformation shows that I have ever heard of. Why do the germans have the SV? So they can accuratly track the lines and preserve the breed? Come on now. I get a kick out of people who preach the hell, fire, and damnation of the SV doctorine and talk shit about breeders who do not follow "the rules" but where is the breed (health wise and working ability) as compared to the other two top working breeds the Dutch Shepherd and the Belgian Malinios? I realize I am not gaining popularity with this thread. Believe me there are some things about GSD's that I am growing to love. I just encourage people not to be sheep, don't be naive, and think outside the box. Being a Malinios guy who got into GSD's it is a whole different world and mindset. It is almost like being on a different planet.

Let's take a gander at this dog........... http://www.bloedlijnen.nl/netscape/form_stamboom.php?ID=1672 I don't read Dutch but it appears this dog was a national KNPV competitor. Look down on the bottom side at the dog Kastor. I'll bet there was some very smart GSD breeder out there that bred this dog into their lines. Just like Joerie, '92 Blegian Ring Champ 1/2 GSD. Some breeder out there somewhere used this dog. I think there is a bit of arrogance for people to assume that only Malinios breeders bring GSD into their dogs but it doesn't happen the other way around. I would love to sit down and talk with Koos. I'll bet he knows all this stuff and really knows what dogs came from who and what lines. Maybe someday. Am I the only one who thinks about this stuff?

let me give you a few clues first of all like the database there are probably a few misstakes on every other website some funny american showlinedogs seemed to be the grandparends of the old czech dogs these american dogs are younger than their grandchildren Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm second there is no such thing as a KNPV pedigree , so your conclusion about dogs changing pedigrees makes me think Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm third of all the dutch KNPV lines are mostly non pedigree crossbred dogs , people use what they think they need without looking wat breed it is the bloedlijnen page is setup to keep up registration of lines , as most of these dogs dont have a pedigree most dogs are referred to as X malinois meaning malinois with something else

As far as I know there are GSD breeders who have bred Dutchies and Mals into their lines...its kept hushush...but I imagine there are several kennels that we all know and respect that bring in these dogs and just sell the ones that dont look like GSDs as sport/police dogs without paperwork. A friend of mine is one of those in the know - and he frequently travels to Europe to speak with some of these breeders....I never would have guessed before. ~Cate