Putting Drives into showlines? - Page 1

If let;s say i was a breeder, and i bred geman showline gsd's in the uk. If i wanted to put some drive into my dogs, which dogs would be good to use to add drives, but does not affect the appearance or health of the German showline in my bloodlines.

take a moment and view the progeny of the"traditional show type" bloodlines.....the dog are almost "hair for hair" the same,yet some lines display very good drives for sport,and some are very flat...this can happen also in the "traditional working lines"....you'll notice that the "slovac" countries are breeding into the showlines to produce working prospects...yet their advice"take it for what it is as the dog stands before you"don't breed it !!! could it be that they've hit a roadblock in their program,and need a different infusion of varity to prepetuate the breeding of suitable working dogs???? this same roadblock may very well exist in what we know today as the "high-line dog"....it seems that the only kennel(that comes to my mind) that has produced good working specimens may be "haus dexel"(gerd ???).of the SHOW/WORKING crosses that i have personally seen...their conformation seems to be marginal at best...the same is true for their working abilities...marginal...the best performer from the showtypes that i've seen was DON OXALLIS...what a machine (i only same him in training..nice and drivey)...could it be that the show breeders may be skipping various steps in training and thus lackluster showing on the working front ???? as for which line will transform that particular type...who knows,when you find that combination,the world will be beating a path to your kennel !!!

WEIRD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you could put drive in showlines and KEEP type, color, and structure, don't you think it would have been done years ago. YOU CAN'T!!! Keeping the qualities you mentioned is what got the breed to where it is. As for health, the showlines don't have superior health in the first place...why would I want to keep it. It genetics baby, genetics...you have to change the genepool, YOU people want to keep this Black and orange pretty  big thing and don't want to mix in anything that will change that AND IMPROVE temperament and you CAN'T do it. You are going against science with your whims and THAT is why no showline breeder can produce performance dogs anymore consistently. (And if you can't do it consistently you have no credibility in what you do). People Wake -up, no people keep on til you get to rock bottom like the American showline then you have nowhere to go but up!

hamza166...i'm not trying to prove any point...please re-read my post...vom haus dexel breeds very nice,capable dogs,but there was no implication that they were the premier "show/working cross" breeder,only that after a long history...they breed dogs with good conformation with acceptable working qualities...i've seen a couple,they were nice.i'll assume there's an exception to every rule......there are "working line" dogs with what i consider to be excellent conformation(but that's my opinion only),there are "show line" dogs  thay display ecellent working quailities(i'll mention two that i saw"don oxallis,iron vom forstkamp)a friend of mine was working a son of "IRON VOM FORSTKAMP"(KOBY VOM ROCKINGHAM) the dog was never titled,lived in a home with two toddlers(koby was bred from a bitch who was 1/2 working-1/2 american pet type)this dog was solid in nerve and a real monster in the bite work,a very big dog...with amazing power on the distance bite,dynamite muzzel work and thunder in the bark/hold...genitic freak???? who knows????? i have no point to prove nor dispell..only trying to add to the thread.

Hamza166, You don't have a clue !!! There are plenty of clever minds and knowledge in Germany....far more than you or I will ever possess, and they don't have a showline that produces consistent performance dogs. None! If you know of the kennel cite the examples and the venue of performance where they have excelled. Don't want to hear excuses or opinions, state some facts to back up your supposition. Many of the German breeders are judges for 30 years, they have knowledge and are more than clever, don't you think they would have been developed a dog with the same things you described and high performance. None of them in past twenty some years didn't want this.???...Get your head out of the sand...these lines are too bottlenecked to produce consistent performance dogs. There is nothing but wishful thinking on your postion and the facts are with my position or else you would have never raised the question in the first place!!!

I am not speaking on ultimate dogsport performance between working and show lines, but in Australia there are several show line breeders that have maintained some seriously hard temperament lines used regularly in police and security work. In fact, the majority of police K9's in Australia are derived from German show line GSD's.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/578380.html

My boy (above) is one of the bloodlines used in police and security work, hard nerve civil dog performing well in protection training in that perspective. Perhaps not having the agility of a dedicated working line in dogsport, for protection work the hardness and gameness of this line produces a dog capable of sucessful security work. 

Rexy, although the drive in it is alright, i was looking for a bit more drive, and for it to possibly be in shows.