Nuetering a not-so-friendly dog - Page 1

(Reposted from general topic)


Hi everyone.

I just made an appointment to have my 2 year old male working line GSD nuetered and OFA'd. I'm worried about leaving him unattended at the vets, he does not take kindly to strangers touching him and I'm sure he will be hostile if he is alone with them (without me present). He is a very large dog and can easily overpower the female vet techs. When I'm present and he is under command, he is fine and very polite but is by no means friendly....controlled? Yes. Friendly? No.
I do not allow strangers to touch him for this reason and usually have him muzzled in high traffic areas (not because he is a loose cannon, but because some people are idiots and like to allow their children to run up to strange dogs, a muzzle seems to be a good detterent, people assume he is not friendly and stay out of our way).

The vet wants me to bring him in early in the morning, leave, then later in the morning they want to sedate him, check vitals..etc. and the actual procedure will occur a bit later after that. After the procedure the vet would like him to stay overnight to make sure he is okay from the anesthetic, check the incision and then have me pick him up early the next day. I expressed my concerns over this, I just don't think it will be fair or safe to leave him alone for that long around strange people, especially if he is in pain. The vet tech told me that if he is doing okay and comes out of the anesthetic I can take him later on the day of the procedure. Even still, I don't know how I feel about him "waking up" alone. What should I do? Has anyone else had to leave an "aggressive"(such a nasty word) dog at the vets for a period of time?



Thank you for your time and response.

 Hi Sayth,

I'm a vet tech and in our clinic we have to deal occasionnaly with not so friendly dogs.  Here's what we do..

We ask the owner to come in the morning with the dog to do the exam and after we give him the sedative (butorphanol and domitor) while the owner is still there.  We tell the owner to wait with the dog until it is well sedated ad then proceed right away with the procedures we have to do.  Then when the dog is well and on his feet we ask the owner to come and take the dog home.  For a male at our place neutering is a one day procedure so you should be able to take him home after he is well awake.

We never had any problem dealing with wathever dogs and sometime the dogs actually act less agressive when the owner is not there.

It just takes a few more precautions but there shouldn't be any problems..Good luck..

Julie

Honestly, If there is a way to can "insist" on being there until he is under and be there when he starts coming around, I would. You can caution and warn all day long, then when someone gets bitten there will be problems.
Over confidence on the vet tech's part is foolish. If they refuse, I would find a different vet.
We have aggressive dogs that come into my grooming salon. Sometimes after the owners leave, they will behave themselves. Other times they don't. We do a "test" leave with the aggressive ones, and have the owners hide and see how the dog reacts. If we feel the grooming will be dangerous to groomer or dog, the dog goes home. Make sure they can get him in and out of the kennel without you too. We have had a few dogs that hop into the kennels, and then we can't get them out (kennel aaggressive.)
This is just my opinion and experience, Good Luck to you

~Stacy

LOL Good post Julie :)

Actually. my male can be very aggressive with vet techs who try to handle him.  I agree many dogs are less aggressive when their handler is not present, that's not the case with my dog.  My vet understands this and knows me and the dog and it's his idea for me to handle the dog during all visits and procedures.  The dog, my police K9, is always muzzled at the vet.  If a procedure needs to done the vet will have me present the entire time.  We have even discussed this in the event of a surgery, that I would be present, before during and after for recovery.  This is quite unusual, but it is actually easier for the vet., because even muzzled my dog can still hurt someone. 

The one time the vet had to sedate my dog for xrays, I was there the entire time.  I actually carried the dog and placed him on the table.  I stayed in the "recovery room"   till the dog came too.   For insurance and liability reasons must vets won't allow this. 

I don't see the need to neuter this dog and I don't neuter my male dogs.  But, it's not my dog.  I agree with Hans' post on the General Topic side.  Obedience training and lots of work on socializing should straighten out his aggression problems. 

JMO,

Jim

Right on Jim!  A muzzled dog doesn't make it that much less of a threat. I have seen a dog get a muzzle off in two shakes of a lamb's tail, lol... And then good luck trying to get it back on without getting bitten in the process. 
You have a smart vet :) He keeps your business and protects everyone involved by bending their typical policies and procedures for your boy.
~Stacy

Thank you all for the advice. (reposted here as well)

I'm not nuetering him due to his "aggression". He is not aggressive, though many people with strictly companion dogs would describe him as such. Many workingline folks have met him and they would not at all call him aggressive, he just doesn't care to be petted and cooed at by strange people. Like I said, he is very controlled and well mannered in the presence of strangers when under command. I guess a better way to put it would be, he is not a dog that seeks out or appreciates attention from people he does not know and will respond to such mannerisms in a way that the general public sees as "aggressive" (like give off a bark).I have socialized him thoroughly as a pup, taken him to trainers, he is well bred, goes everywhere with me and is a very happy dog. He just doesn't like people a whole lot. Because of this I take serious precautions when we are in public. It doesn't take much for a dog to be classified as "vicious" around here and for this reason I take training very seriously. He has very reliable OB and like I said, he is under control. All of that aside though, he is a pretty intimidating dog and many people do not understand canine body language, nor know how to act in the presence of a serious dog. Many people escalate situations unknowingly, this is what worries me about leaving him unattended. It's not him I'm worried about, it's the people that will be surrounding him. He would never bite anyone unprovoked, but I think from the dogs perspective the described situation (at the vet clinic) may warrant a bite in his mind. Afterall, he will be alone, with strange people holding him and proding him(exaggerating here a bit) in a tiny room with no escape. He will not be able to go into avoidance and I worry that he will do what's natural and bite. Perhaps I'm over thinking the sitiuation. I just love my dog and his safety and wellbeing is my ultimate concern, I would be devasted if a bite occured. I know how he is when I'm not present, he can be pretty nutty. Screeching like a banshee(seperation anxiety, but only if he see's me leave) and gets P-O'd when someone other then myself or partner gives a command. Some people have been able to manage him just fine, but these are working enthusiasts who have experience with this type of dog. They all seem to like him!

I may be going into too specific of details, I don't want to confuse people at all. His tempermant is ideal to me, I would not change a single thing about him. We have a very good relationship together and we are always striving to achieve more and more in our training sessions.

I'm nuetering him because A) I'm not a breeder and could never be a breeder, not my cup of tea and not why I bought my dog. B) he is cryptorchid and not altering him can increase his risk of cancer. C) I don't want any accidental breedings to occur in his lifetime.

I think I will talk to the vet again and explain to her that I would feel more comfortable being at the clinic while they sedate him and while he wakes up. I wont ask to be in the same room but being at the clinic would give me a better peace of mind. I'm more worried about the whole "overnight" thing. He has never stayed overnight anywhere unless I have been by his side. I guess all I can do is cross my fingers and hope he "wakes up" fast so I can bring him home the same day. If he does have to stay overnight I think I will rent a hotel room and ask the vet to phone me immediately when they arrive at the clinic in the morning so I can be present (at least in the same building) when they attempt to handle him.

Thanks Jim, it is reassuring to know that I'm not the only one with a dog that doesn't take kindly to strangers.

Oh, you're definitely not the only one with a dog that the general public would consider "aggressive"...because they are used to fluffy Golden Retrievers and not working dogs that mean business. ;-) My dog is completely calm in traffic, ignores people, sits calmly before we cross the street even in a crowd of other pedestrians. However, he does not like people to pet him that he doesn't know, especially from behind. He won't bite, he just turns around suddenly (which startles them) and gives them that GSD glare. This actually happened to me just the other day. I was trying to cross a busy street (lots of cars and people) and some dumbass decided it would be perfectly fine to reach down as he passed us to touch my dogs back. Good thing my dog ISN'T aggressive because he would have lost his hand. It's made me consider putting him in a muzzle, or at least getting one of those vests that say "in training" or "do not pet".

Unfortunately, people (especially in the area I live in) have no manners around dogs...I like to call it the "Petsmart effect". When I take him to my parents house in Arkansas, I never have to worry about people trying to pet him. It's understood among country folk that you don't pet a dog that ain't yours. Even kids know this. In my experience city folk seem to be less educated about dogs...

Most clinics would be fine with you staying with him after he has been sedated and remain with him until groggy. I cannot see where they would have a problem with that.

One of my bitches had to have a procedure done recently and that is exactly how my vet did it. I then waited until she was done and took her home when she was up and awake. They also allowed me to take her later in the morning when they would be ready to go ahead as soon as she was sedated.
When I take a dog for hip and elbow x-rays they let me stay with the dog the whole time.

I cannot see why they would want him to stay overnight, castrating is a simple procedure and as such he should be able to go home an hour or 2 post op.