BREEDERS ADVICE ON PAKROS 2-3 IN-BREEDING - Page 1

WHAT DO YOU THINK THE QUALITY OF THE PUPS WILL BE IN THE FOLLOWING LINEBREEDING?

• 5 - 4............................................. in V1 (BSZS) Eros von der Luisenstraße
• 5 - 4............................................. in V Verena von Batu
• 5 - 4............................................. in VA1 (I) SGR Hobby vom Gletschertopf
• 4 - 3............................................. in VA1 Ursus von Batu
• 4 - 5............................................. in VA4 Odin vom Hirschel
• 5 - 5............................................. in VA2 Jango vom Fürstenberg
• 4 - 5............................................. in VA Beaury van de Huis Kirura
• 4 - 5............................................. in V Wasko d' Ulmental
• 3 - 4............................................. in VA1 Bax von der Luisenstraße
• 4 - 5............................................. in V Feli vom Ochsentor
• 3 - 4............................................. in VA1 Karma vom Ochsentor
• 2 - 3............................................. in VA4 Pakros d`Ulmental
• BOTH PARENTS ARE VERY PROMISING YOUNG PUPS WITH EXCELLENT BITEWORK AND TEMPERAMENT
• YOU CAN SEE BOTH PARENTS AT http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/para.utkoma?fadir=497836&modir=501590

That is a lot of line breeding.  Had a similar conversation a year ago regarding a prospective breeding with Yello St. Michaels with my Sala Von Batu.  The owner of Yello said the puppies would either  be SUPER or shit.  That is a gamble that I would not take.  The gene pool is too diversified for this, in my opinion, to have to take a risk like this.

Stephen

SGBH THANKS FOR YOUR COMMENT, I WAS WONDERING IS IT WORTH TAKING THE RISK IN ORDER TO GET AT LEAST ONE SUPER MALE?

Not commenting on the specific lines you are talking about.

I will say that line breeding is both the best and the worst way of breeding.

Lets say you breed a mother with her own son. This way you will of course have a bigger chance that the pubs will be like the parents. However. when doing line breeding this close. You will get all the good trades but also the bad. Line breeding is therfore a problematic breeding metode.

This form of breeding is often used in commercial animals like cows and pigs. However it demands of the breeder to be willing to kill of the carriers of the bad trades.

I know that this comment is short and without the details of this process. This is due to the language barrier and the enormety of the subjekt

I think that your mind is already made up.

I agree with SGBHs opinion. Anyway, you need to see how will the dogs turn out. They are stil quite youndg 

just to add

the genetic veriables in these senarios are much more predictable ,in the form of recessive deases and the breeding vitality  of the offsprings can be affected negatively. therefore if one is to go about doing these kind of close line breeding ,one has to be sure that both parents and their offspring are clear as possible from genetic deaseses.

therefore my best advice is that tread carefully ,and if possible try to diversify your breeding program dont just look at the blood line look at the dogs in front of you and if possible their offsprings.Dogs that have VA are known to have some grave defects,with loose hocks and soft bite work etc. know your dogs before inbreeding on those lines.

Best regards

emir ali sadaghiani

Von Sadaghiani German Shepherds

ATARTHS, in that line breeding you show the last common denominator, so the line breeding is only 2-3 on Pakros, the rest is not considered, though it is still there. It has been a subject on the messageboard before, Oli left it in for his personal reasons, but that is not how the line breeding would show. 
If a breeding like that produces good or bad only the result will tell. No way to predict it. Let these dogs grow up first and see if you still want to (or can) breed with either once they are mature. Then try and see what comes of it. Its just one litter out of so many possible combinations. Always worth a try if you think the dogs are worth breeding with.

Emir, the offspring can also be affected positively by compounding the good attributes through line breeding. But yes, caution is necessary with every breeding. Unfortunately we never quite know what recessives lurk in the background. Recessive combinations also occurr where there is no linebreeding at all and when two dogs of different lines have these recessives in their background. This is why outcrosses are such fun :o). Never know what is lurking in there and if you got a surprise where it came from. Then you need to line breed again in the hopes of finding it.

if your female is a mothertypical bitch you have as much chance to have more  Ursus  genes in your puppies than Pakros genes , in fact the male can carry as little as 5 or ten percent Pakros as well

looking at this pedigree I wouldnot call this linebreeding  , but a shot in the dark

furthermore discussing a real linebreedingcombination is also useless unless you know the animals to breed with personally , for every combination stands on itsself

breedings based solely on  papers will only bring you crap  remember from every topmale are more average or bad puppies , than toppups

250 breedings  X lets say 5 pups gives you 1250 pups , howmany percent will be top , but yet the rest are also siegeroffspring , and valued by their pedigree  and bred with