STUD DOGS - Page 1

Stud Dogs >>>>

Why is it that when we use a stud dog and find we have a problem with 1 or more puppies in a litter we don't talk about it? 

Last year I use the same stud twice on two different bitches (both were bred by me) and learned a huge lesson. The litters were 5 months apart and yes I should have waited for the first litter to develop and mature before using him again. Lesson learned.

Both of these litters produced weak ears, litter 1 (2 puppies only 1 ear up & 1 puppy no ears up) 4 others OK
Litter 2 (1 puppy 1 ear up)  other 6 OK.

I am aware that the bitch also has some responsibly here but in 8 years of breeding (only 6 litters I have never had an ear problem).

These stud dogs have the potential to do great damage to our beloved breed so why is it not discussed?

Yes I know that we would make a few enemies along the way.

why isn't it discussed? why has it become taboo to say so and so produced such and such?

I don't know really.  I do know $$$ and politics plays alot in the answer.  I remember a few months back, I "SUGGESTED" the great Ursus Batu might have carried the liver gene, as I have noticed quite a few dogs linebred closely on him and gr.pups out of him producing liver dogs.  Boy howdy if I didn't ruffle some feathers with that comment.   Some of these animals have been placed so high on golden pedestals, how dare you say they produce nothing but perfection!  maybe its an ego or pride thing with some people.


in the end, it is really the people/breeder/owner who are not being honest with themselves. 

The breed can not improve if people are not open about health problems, faults being produced (weak ears, color, ect) structure defects and causes of death. 

I have been in the "dog game" for a lot of years. And yes, the bitch supplies a lot of the genes. So saying upfront that the stud is responsible is a little unfair.

But really, if you expect most (not all) stud owners to reveal the faults that their dog produces, you are living in a fantasy world. We're talking several hendred's of dollars here. There are people who will cut your throat for a lot less. And I can assure, some of these type people own very nice GSD.

I have shipped bitches more than once and paid stud fees, only to breed to dogs that the owners knew very well were sterile. Many, many people could care less, only if your check cleared the bank.

JMHO,
Rik

I am not trying to put all of  the blame on a stud dog, that would be unfair and no stud owners will ever talk about any faults that their dog HAS produced to any line even if they are aware of any possible fault to the bitch line they will never refuse a bitch a service.

But why is it taboo for owners of bitches bred to XYZ dog to speak out if they produce a fault ? Are they then afraid that they will be seen as producing poor quality puppies?

I myself only speak about such things to very close friends but is amazing when one finds that a friend of a friend used the same dog and also had such faults.

I think that some stud dog owners become defensive, because in alot of cases, the bitches owners blame the stud dogs for whatever their "litters" problems are.
Many people in general (stud dog owner & bitches owner) forget that it takes 2 sides of the dogs and pedigrees to produce 1 litter......(sire & dam).

Robin. I agree with you 100%.

However, many stud dog owners will also hide faults, sterility to continue collecting fees.

So, it is a 2 way street.

What I have learned is to only deal with people with very, very good reputations. This would have saved me a lot of $ if I had learned it sooner.

Rik

I think that some stud dog owners become defensive, because in alot of cases, the bitches owners blame the stud dogs for whatever their "litters" problems are.
Many people in general (stud dog owner & bitches owner) forget that it takes 2 sides of the dogs and pedigrees to produce 1 litter......(sire & dam).

Before I search for a stud I make sure they have already sired pups that I can see in person to check their temperaments.
Also to see the whole dog, and find out how healthy they are, if there's a problem people will talk about it, I like a heads up.

I believe certain defects run within certain bloodlines, it's not a dam or sire thing, it's a grand-dam or grand-sire thing, I have a five week old litter at this time whom most all of them have both ears up, which doesn't surprise me, cause the sire has the same dad as my girl Bonnie, and Bonnie has been bred to to different studs & both litters have had their ears up between 4 & 5 weeks old, so in her case she carries the strong ear trait, which must be from her dad's side.

Breeders need to be honest to each other about what they are producing so dogs can be paired up to produce healthy pups, of course you will get some faults, but major faults can be avoided by not repeating a breeding between two dogs that are known to produce that fault within their litter, a stud with weak ears could be bred to a bitch known to produce strong ears, that is if he is being bred cause he has many other outstanding attributes.

That one stud came from somewhere, he wasn't hatched, you have to look at least 3 generations back into the family tree, and see dogs in person, or hear from owners of the relatives.

It could also be that it,s just that specific combination of genetics that make up for the abnormality, have you talked to other people who have used him is it something that is prevelant in his breedings? alone or on paper the genetics may look good but once those litlte bits of genetic code start hooking up you can only hope for the best. Also are your bitches related? if so maybe it has to do more with there certin genetics then his? just food for thought.   

integrity is sometimes blinded by the $$$.
Find peple who have integrity. Ask, see, request some ofspring pictures.. look at what the dog produces. talk to breeders who used that stud and if they would use that stud again. Unfortunately females contribute as well so going and finding a stud that will not contribute to the female's faults is very important. It is called Research. Crap it takes me forever  to find a puppy I would consider.. based on my researches.