croups - Page 6

Ibrahim, that bit is simple:  the 'topline' is the WHOLE  line along the
spine;  the 'back' is just that SECTION of the spine starting where the
wither ends, and stopping where the croup begins.  Ppl use the words
interchangably;  they shouldn't but they (we !) all do it sometimes  lol.

[Think Humans, and collarbone to coccyx.  You don't say "my back
hurts" when you mean your neck and shoulders ?]
 
Sorry the english in the two 'worthy tomes' is a bit difficult for those of
you for whom it is a foreign language.  Trouble is, the definitions are
fairly complicated to explain.  Any simple paraphrasing usually leads to
ppl like "I'm always right" there using semantics to explain why their
dogs don't resemble the country of origin's dogs.

Aha, thanks Hundmutter and thanks GUDDU for the nice words

Immerecht,

That is a whole different topic, it was covered before in few threads. As I said above at the moment I think straight was meant "without dip", but that does not mean the backs in the three photos are correct as per standard and you have a point there. I personally do not find them excessively roached but they are excessively sloping.
You are also correct in your point about no distinctive start of the croup. I personally think first back and croup comply more with the standard.




 

The FCI breed standard:

BODY
The top line extends from the point where the neck meets the skull past the well developed withers and the gently downward sloping back to the slightly sloping croup without a visible break. The back is firm, strong, and well muscled. The loin is broad, well developed, and strongly muscled. The croup should be long and have a slight downward slope (approximately 23 degrees from horizontal) and should merge smoothly into the tail set.


The AKC breed standard:

Topline-- The withers are higher than and sloping into the level back. The back is straight, very strongly developed without sag or roach, and relatively short.The whole structure of the body gives an impression of depth and solidity without bulkiness.

I don't think asking for a flat/level/straight back is intended to meant a topline that is parallel to the ground.  That, however, is not addressed in either breed standard, so we are left to our own interpretation. The degree of slope is the result of how much or how little rear angulation and how much the dog is stretched (or not). We would need to see these dog standing naturally to make a fair evaluation. I've seen Urma photos of GSL's where they appear to have carp backs. When seen in person, they do not. One was my own dog.
 

Thank you Blitzen,  

gently downward sloping back 

note he says gently sloping

sloping croup

note he says sloping (not curving)

without a visible break.

this is very important
 

Blitzen,

I thought I saw the word straight, maybe in SV ?

AKC breed standard uses the term "straight". IMO straight, level, flat mean the same thing - no roach, no sag- a topline like Dallas'. I saw him in person , his topline wasn't nearly as exaggerated as it looked on photos where Jimmie has him stretched. That's the way ASL dogs are shown.