This is a placeholder text
Group text
by Videx on 05 April 2010 - 15:04
Dingo..... I am receiving unconfirmed reports that the Kennel Club have engaged a PR company to "counter" the publicity emanating from the "correct international GSD enthusiasts". I am also receiving reports that BAGSD have requested help from one or more of their members, for a similar task. I have also received opinions that Caroline Kisko & Simon Luxmoore (KC General committee) and reportedly a ruthlessly ambitious man, are also formulating and distributing counter propaganda. If true, they must be worried!
Are you involved in any of this Katrina Doble?
That as it may be: I am receiving much more interesting reports that some National Pedigree Dog Breed Clubs are in the process of preparing a complaint about the Kennel Club "ABS" to the "Office of Fair Trading". This may require some of my time, so I am afraid that I have no time more to continue this banter, except to ask, Where is your own website, or the one which you are responsible for, which contains your "Animal Rights Views?" - Surely you don't simply rely on BLOGS, message-boards, texts, emails, petitions, letters etc..
I am sure you know where my website is!,
Are you involved in any of this Katrina Doble?
That as it may be: I am receiving much more interesting reports that some National Pedigree Dog Breed Clubs are in the process of preparing a complaint about the Kennel Club "ABS" to the "Office of Fair Trading". This may require some of my time, so I am afraid that I have no time more to continue this banter, except to ask, Where is your own website, or the one which you are responsible for, which contains your "Animal Rights Views?" - Surely you don't simply rely on BLOGS, message-boards, texts, emails, petitions, letters etc..
I am sure you know where my website is!,
by Dingodog on 05 April 2010 - 18:04
David
No, No, No - how many times - I am just me. You cannot seem to understand that someone can have no agenda, it just doesn't feature in your map of the world. So now you try to paint me as an animal rights activist - your imagination has no limits. You know what they say about paranoia...
I would have thought that the KC already have a PR consultant. Judging by the quality of their responses so far, I would say that was definitely the case - it would in any case seem logical to me for such a large organisation.
I applaud the other breed clubs for approaching the problem in a sensible fashion and through the formal channels, and having united to agree to do it.. I have always said that the KC need a kick up the backside to get some things done, and this is one of them. Just didn't agree with your approach - seemed too 'childish and spiteful' somehow. And these breed clubs have asked for your help on this?? Well I guess you will be busy if that is the case.
David - what you have posted above is not the GSDL, which was the reference in my post, since my understanding is that the GSDL are going to lead the GSD forward. What you posted was what was proposed to the Kennel Club. By posting it here are you saying that this has now been accepted and will be made mandatory by the GSDL? Didn't they already reject your GSD Accredited breeder scheme? BTW - where is this information available to the puppy buying public? Why would the GSD League not have it on their website? So many questions - so few valid answers.
No, I don't have a website, I don't need one - I don't sell anything.
Good luck with the latest 'campaign' :)
No, No, No - how many times - I am just me. You cannot seem to understand that someone can have no agenda, it just doesn't feature in your map of the world. So now you try to paint me as an animal rights activist - your imagination has no limits. You know what they say about paranoia...
I would have thought that the KC already have a PR consultant. Judging by the quality of their responses so far, I would say that was definitely the case - it would in any case seem logical to me for such a large organisation.
I applaud the other breed clubs for approaching the problem in a sensible fashion and through the formal channels, and having united to agree to do it.. I have always said that the KC need a kick up the backside to get some things done, and this is one of them. Just didn't agree with your approach - seemed too 'childish and spiteful' somehow. And these breed clubs have asked for your help on this?? Well I guess you will be busy if that is the case.
David - what you have posted above is not the GSDL, which was the reference in my post, since my understanding is that the GSDL are going to lead the GSD forward. What you posted was what was proposed to the Kennel Club. By posting it here are you saying that this has now been accepted and will be made mandatory by the GSDL? Didn't they already reject your GSD Accredited breeder scheme? BTW - where is this information available to the puppy buying public? Why would the GSD League not have it on their website? So many questions - so few valid answers.
No, I don't have a website, I don't need one - I don't sell anything.
Good luck with the latest 'campaign' :)
by Videx on 05 April 2010 - 19:04
You make too many assumptions Dingo.... many of them are wrong. I haven't the time to correct and educate you on everything about the GSDL, SV, WUSV, The history of our breed, The GSD Breed Standard, the international GSD etc etc on a one to one basis. You will have to remain ignorant on these things, and mouthy with it. You fit in well with other trolls on this board.
The League have a huge amount to do, and the Council are "volunteers" - They have full time Jobs to do. So stop sniping at them. The person with responsibility for the GSDL website works around 70 to 100 hours a week on his own business, which in the current climate needs his full attention. So get off your high horses and have some regard and respect for the GSD League Council members.
The Kennel Club on the other hand have £millions of our money, to play with, and to pay for specialists to defend them with "spin" and attack us with "spin".
Our correct international GSD will emerge much healthier in Great Britain through this experience.
I cannot say the same for the Alsatian.
You should read the article by Joe Summerhill "New Choice for the GSD Exhibitor"
which will be placed on my Videx web site very shortly, where it can be read in 20 languages. Sorry it may not include one suitable for you.
The League have a huge amount to do, and the Council are "volunteers" - They have full time Jobs to do. So stop sniping at them. The person with responsibility for the GSDL website works around 70 to 100 hours a week on his own business, which in the current climate needs his full attention. So get off your high horses and have some regard and respect for the GSD League Council members.
The Kennel Club on the other hand have £millions of our money, to play with, and to pay for specialists to defend them with "spin" and attack us with "spin".
Our correct international GSD will emerge much healthier in Great Britain through this experience.
I cannot say the same for the Alsatian.
You should read the article by Joe Summerhill "New Choice for the GSD Exhibitor"
which will be placed on my Videx web site very shortly, where it can be read in 20 languages. Sorry it may not include one suitable for you.
by Zac on 05 April 2010 - 20:04
David, might I respectfully suggest that we find the time to educate the general public!
They are just not going to get this change one bit.
All they will understand is what they hear KC talking about.
I still fear that the wheel is about to come off this bandwagon thats rapidly gaining momentum.
I may be missing something, but there doesnt seem to be any appointed leader and call me cynical (like I'm sure you will) but I'm just waiting for the fighting and power struggle to break out as ususal.
They are just not going to get this change one bit.
All they will understand is what they hear KC talking about.
I still fear that the wheel is about to come off this bandwagon thats rapidly gaining momentum.
I may be missing something, but there doesnt seem to be any appointed leader and call me cynical (like I'm sure you will) but I'm just waiting for the fighting and power struggle to break out as ususal.
by Videx on 05 April 2010 - 22:04
With some degree of restraint, Zac, what exactly have you done to educate and communicate our cause throughout the Great British public? Please feel free to write some articles and have them published. Perhaps on your website.
I am currently having a huge struggle educating our GSD enthusiasts with websites to recognise what a powerful and influential "combined" media our websites could be for "educating the public" about our exciting "meaningful & measurable health and welfare programme for the GSD, and for it to reach the vast majority of GSD Puppy buying public. That is EXACTLY the best time to educate them, when they are looking to buy a GSD Puppy.
If we can't get such an obvious and powerful "combined" media "up and running", perhaps you are right, our current euphoria may be somewhat premature or short lived. Perhaps selfish motives prevail all too frequently throughout our breed.
I just wish every GSD website would feature 2 or 3 articles, prominently. Perhaps starting with our GSD-KC-The Reality + appendix 1 "GSD Planned Improvement Programme" and the article "New Choice for the GSD Breeder"
Can you imagine the impact that would have?
Perhaps Zac, you may think I could and should do more?
I am currently having a huge struggle educating our GSD enthusiasts with websites to recognise what a powerful and influential "combined" media our websites could be for "educating the public" about our exciting "meaningful & measurable health and welfare programme for the GSD, and for it to reach the vast majority of GSD Puppy buying public. That is EXACTLY the best time to educate them, when they are looking to buy a GSD Puppy.
If we can't get such an obvious and powerful "combined" media "up and running", perhaps you are right, our current euphoria may be somewhat premature or short lived. Perhaps selfish motives prevail all too frequently throughout our breed.
I just wish every GSD website would feature 2 or 3 articles, prominently. Perhaps starting with our GSD-KC-The Reality + appendix 1 "GSD Planned Improvement Programme" and the article "New Choice for the GSD Breeder"
Can you imagine the impact that would have?
Perhaps Zac, you may think I could and should do more?
by Dingodog on 05 April 2010 - 23:04
Zac
Exactly. If the GSD 'breakaway' are going to succeed they need to start putting it together, not turning their efforts into constant sniping at the KC, what a waste of energy. If people can spend that much time on the KC, surely someone can take a couple of hours to create a worthwhile health page for the website! If that much cannot be done, I hold out little hope of anything else getting off the ground. But we will see..........Mr Payne assures us that this will all work wonderfully without the hindrance of the KC. As I said before, I think a split as it has turned out is best for the breed, because it gives two separate opportunities for the betterment of the breed.
David
The fact that they are volunteers who work I can empathise with and have no intention of disrespecting the League council members, I homevet for a rescue centre, and I also work, so I do understand. Yes the KC have a vast amount of money behind them, but you CHOSE to breakaway. It really it isn't acceptable to put inadequacies down to being volunteers, how can the GSDL 'lead the GSD' into the future, as Zac says with no apparent structure,leaders, money and a part-time 'volunteer' approach?
Fact is, this website has been up for years with minimum health information on it, so I don't accept that what you have said is an adequate excuse, when everyone is continually saying how 'they' are the only ones promoting the health of the GSD.
Writing articles and action are two very different things, and THAT is becoming more and more apparent.
I highlight the GSDL because you are targeting the KC when 'you' (collective) are doing less than they in terms of educating the public, or placing health first and foremost. That's why. I don't support anyone in this 'mess' but I do watch the outcome with interest.
I've already read the thread, part of my desire to keep up with events, and will watch with interest how it all goes.
Your insults are irrelevant and not unexpected, so I won't bother with those.
Anyhow, I've no doubt that you need to go off and 'help' the other breed councils, so I wont keep you. Good Luck with that.
Exactly. If the GSD 'breakaway' are going to succeed they need to start putting it together, not turning their efforts into constant sniping at the KC, what a waste of energy. If people can spend that much time on the KC, surely someone can take a couple of hours to create a worthwhile health page for the website! If that much cannot be done, I hold out little hope of anything else getting off the ground. But we will see..........Mr Payne assures us that this will all work wonderfully without the hindrance of the KC. As I said before, I think a split as it has turned out is best for the breed, because it gives two separate opportunities for the betterment of the breed.
David
The fact that they are volunteers who work I can empathise with and have no intention of disrespecting the League council members, I homevet for a rescue centre, and I also work, so I do understand. Yes the KC have a vast amount of money behind them, but you CHOSE to breakaway. It really it isn't acceptable to put inadequacies down to being volunteers, how can the GSDL 'lead the GSD' into the future, as Zac says with no apparent structure,leaders, money and a part-time 'volunteer' approach?
Fact is, this website has been up for years with minimum health information on it, so I don't accept that what you have said is an adequate excuse, when everyone is continually saying how 'they' are the only ones promoting the health of the GSD.
Writing articles and action are two very different things, and THAT is becoming more and more apparent.
I highlight the GSDL because you are targeting the KC when 'you' (collective) are doing less than they in terms of educating the public, or placing health first and foremost. That's why. I don't support anyone in this 'mess' but I do watch the outcome with interest.
I've already read the thread, part of my desire to keep up with events, and will watch with interest how it all goes.
Your insults are irrelevant and not unexpected, so I won't bother with those.
Anyhow, I've no doubt that you need to go off and 'help' the other breed councils, so I wont keep you. Good Luck with that.
by jaymesie51 on 06 April 2010 - 08:04
dingodog sorry you fail to understand that the GSDL and other clubs who refused to sign this undertaking did not choose to breakaway from the KC these clubs will still be licensed by the KC but will be able to hold events without going cap in hand to the KC so our breed surveys LG shows etc will be run under wusv regs ok they might not be able to give out CCs but there is much more to dogs than bits of card or do you think that bit of card is more important, you see the difference here is that every adult dog/bitch will have to have passed the health tests to enter the LG type shows Now if you cant see how huge a step forward that is then you really do not care about the health or future of our breed
jim h
jim h
by Dingodog on 06 April 2010 - 08:04
Jim h
I don't fail to understand. I understand perfectly I use the term 'breakawy' simply as a means to describe the current situation of those clubs who haven't signed. The whole point and thrust of this thread has been the ABS, which I may add I have said all the way through is ineffective and needs to be changed.
No I don't think a bit of card is more important at all - so much so, that I have never and would never want to show. I think all dogs being mandatorily health tested is the way to go, for the KC as well ultimately. As I have said, at the moment the GSDL website is completely inadequate in terms of health information, suggesting far less is needed than the KC breed recommended health tests, and that has been the case for years. What I am suggesting that it is therefore inappropriate to waste energy sniping at the KC when 'your' (collective) own house is not in order and there is no useful information for the puppy buying public (unless they end up on David Payne's website of course).
I certainly do care about the future of the breed, at the moment I am just not sure who is going to benefit it the most. Mandatory testing should be a must, although I am concerned that the PIP doesn't plan on bringing in mandatory health testing until 2012. Entering any show, KC or otherwise to my mind should only be open to dogs with passing grades in the health tests - including elbows. Even that shouldn't be beyond the KC. It doesn't however address the issue of overangulation, conformation and unsoundness though which is where this whole situation began, and I fear that the 'breakaway' group will perhaps not feel the need to address this, as in the main it doesn't seem to be considered a problem. But, as I have said - time will tell.
I don't fail to understand. I understand perfectly I use the term 'breakawy' simply as a means to describe the current situation of those clubs who haven't signed. The whole point and thrust of this thread has been the ABS, which I may add I have said all the way through is ineffective and needs to be changed.
No I don't think a bit of card is more important at all - so much so, that I have never and would never want to show. I think all dogs being mandatorily health tested is the way to go, for the KC as well ultimately. As I have said, at the moment the GSDL website is completely inadequate in terms of health information, suggesting far less is needed than the KC breed recommended health tests, and that has been the case for years. What I am suggesting that it is therefore inappropriate to waste energy sniping at the KC when 'your' (collective) own house is not in order and there is no useful information for the puppy buying public (unless they end up on David Payne's website of course).
I certainly do care about the future of the breed, at the moment I am just not sure who is going to benefit it the most. Mandatory testing should be a must, although I am concerned that the PIP doesn't plan on bringing in mandatory health testing until 2012. Entering any show, KC or otherwise to my mind should only be open to dogs with passing grades in the health tests - including elbows. Even that shouldn't be beyond the KC. It doesn't however address the issue of overangulation, conformation and unsoundness though which is where this whole situation began, and I fear that the 'breakaway' group will perhaps not feel the need to address this, as in the main it doesn't seem to be considered a problem. But, as I have said - time will tell.
by Zac on 06 April 2010 - 09:04
David, you might actually be surprised at what I have done to help educate the general public however, this is not a competition and so I am not going to get into who has done more than anyone else.
Unfortunately I dont share your enthusiasm on this one.
I certainly don’t believe that there are the number of supporters you all seem to imagine exist. The number of clubs who HAVE signed up to CC’s far out weighs those who have not signed and, let us not forget, that several of the clubs who have not signed are comprised of the same members and the same EC so no great surprise there eh?
Right now all I can see is people sniping at KC and picking at any little loop they can find . Until something exists thats BETTER than KC ABS I for one will not be spending as much time knocking it as some other people seem to do. At this present moment in time we have no alternative to ABS all I can see are shows being organised which makes me wonder if this is all some people really are interested in:(
I believe that the general public will want to stay clear of controversy and fighting and that they would be a lot more receptive to decent alternatives beeing offered to them.
by Videx on 06 April 2010 - 09:04
Dingo..... cannot grasp the full reality, because she does not know! So we must help her.
Zac (anonymous) would write a first paragraph like that - which CANNOT be verified. One thing about Zac which is clear - he/she is an ABS member. (puppy sales spring to mind)
Of course the League can lead with volunteers, they are a KC & a WUSV (SV) Club.
The League are building onto the Kennel Clubs OWN LIMITATIONS towards Health & Welfare (going where the KC has never been before, and refuse to go because they are worried about losing registration income. - 'star wars fan')
The League are basing their GSD League/WUSV EVENTS on the WUSV Rules & Regulations.
They are using the GSD breed survey system & the SV Korung (choice for members) They are considering an "accredited GSD scheme" (look on my website). They are considering many other exciting projects.
They will not be rushed into reckless decisions, they understand the need for "inclusivity" - "choice" - "health & welfare" - "progress" - "support" - "responsibility" - "training & education" - "diverse GSD activity" - "international GSD links and advice" etc etc.
The GSD League are developing an exciting future for our "correct International GSD" in Great Britain, building on and with what exists "Internationally". I am sure they will also examine the FCI policies (posted on my website) - many exceed the KC policies on "breeding requirements"
Of course WUSV/SV rules & regs. cover the most advanced health and welfare & Fit for Function requirements of any breed - anywhere in the World.
Dingo... clearly doesn't know this, as most Alsatianists don't know, and the KC turn a blind eye to them.
Many of our "correct international GSD enthusiasts already know this, and we MUST educate the general public on these facts. It takes time, and surely something so good for our breed is worth doing and worth having a little patience for.
People like Dingo simply want to create impatience and disillusionment - ignore such "sirens".
Zac (anonymous) would write a first paragraph like that - which CANNOT be verified. One thing about Zac which is clear - he/she is an ABS member. (puppy sales spring to mind)
Of course the League can lead with volunteers, they are a KC & a WUSV (SV) Club.
The League are building onto the Kennel Clubs OWN LIMITATIONS towards Health & Welfare (going where the KC has never been before, and refuse to go because they are worried about losing registration income. - 'star wars fan')
The League are basing their GSD League/WUSV EVENTS on the WUSV Rules & Regulations.
They are using the GSD breed survey system & the SV Korung (choice for members) They are considering an "accredited GSD scheme" (look on my website). They are considering many other exciting projects.
They will not be rushed into reckless decisions, they understand the need for "inclusivity" - "choice" - "health & welfare" - "progress" - "support" - "responsibility" - "training & education" - "diverse GSD activity" - "international GSD links and advice" etc etc.
The GSD League are developing an exciting future for our "correct International GSD" in Great Britain, building on and with what exists "Internationally". I am sure they will also examine the FCI policies (posted on my website) - many exceed the KC policies on "breeding requirements"
Of course WUSV/SV rules & regs. cover the most advanced health and welfare & Fit for Function requirements of any breed - anywhere in the World.
Dingo... clearly doesn't know this, as most Alsatianists don't know, and the KC turn a blind eye to them.
Many of our "correct international GSD enthusiasts already know this, and we MUST educate the general public on these facts. It takes time, and surely something so good for our breed is worth doing and worth having a little patience for.
People like Dingo simply want to create impatience and disillusionment - ignore such "sirens".
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top
