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by Blitzen on 22 February 2012 - 19:02
Wow, all I want to see is all sides of this issue presented here so breeders have the information they need to decide what is right for them.
by beetree on 22 February 2012 - 19:02
That would seem the easy way out, Videx. Blame the people who have open minds, when oddly enough, they too, hate this disease.
The curious thing about funders is, there usually are reasons for them to pull funds, and it is hardly arbitrary. Universities certainly cash in on prestige, but as noted, Dogenes is a business, and not a non-profit. And their funding sources will not always be the same. Matter of fact, without a 501 c 3, private foundations can not be funders of private business.
The curious thing about funders is, there usually are reasons for them to pull funds, and it is hardly arbitrary. Universities certainly cash in on prestige, but as noted, Dogenes is a business, and not a non-profit. And their funding sources will not always be the same. Matter of fact, without a 501 c 3, private foundations can not be funders of private business.
by marjorie on 22 February 2012 - 23:02
My last attempt and then I am done. I have pulled out my hip, carrying Missie T and I can barely walk. Dr now insists I apply for a handicaaped permit. I am in terrible pain and need to stay on an even keel for Missie T.
Once again, you want both sides of the issue. Well, once again, in lay persons terms- here are both sides in black and white.
DM Corgis, Boxers, : motor unit disease
DM GSD: Auto-immune disease
DM Corgis, Boxers : Protein is normal in the AO CSF
DM GSD: Protein is normal in the AO CSF but Protein is elevated in the Lumbar CSF
DM Corgis, Boxers: Oligoclonal bands of IgG are uncommon
DM GSDS: Oligoclonal bands of IgG are common in MS
DM Corgis, Boxers: affects cell bodies of neurons
DM GSDS: Does not affect cell bodies of neurons
DM Corgis. Boxers: muscle spasms
DM GSDS: no muscle spasms
DM Corgis, Boxers:EMG is affected early in the disease
DM GSDS: EMG is normal
This is science- both sides of the issue side by side. If one cannot see the difference, then there is truly no hope, and all the kings horses and all the kings men will never put Humpty Dumpty ( in this case the GSD breed) together again.....
This has been beaten to death. I am not writing all this in bold- its just locked on bold for some reason, so please understand I am not shouting. I am too emotionally exhausted to shout. I give up- crying uncle....
Once again, you want both sides of the issue. Well, once again, in lay persons terms- here are both sides in black and white.
DM Corgis, Boxers, : motor unit disease
DM GSD: Auto-immune disease
DM Corgis, Boxers : Protein is normal in the AO CSF
DM GSD: Protein is normal in the AO CSF but Protein is elevated in the Lumbar CSF
DM Corgis, Boxers: Oligoclonal bands of IgG are uncommon
DM GSDS: Oligoclonal bands of IgG are common in MS
DM Corgis, Boxers: affects cell bodies of neurons
DM GSDS: Does not affect cell bodies of neurons
DM Corgis. Boxers: muscle spasms
DM GSDS: no muscle spasms
DM Corgis, Boxers:EMG is affected early in the disease
DM GSDS: EMG is normal
This is science- both sides of the issue side by side. If one cannot see the difference, then there is truly no hope, and all the kings horses and all the kings men will never put Humpty Dumpty ( in this case the GSD breed) together again.....
This has been beaten to death. I am not writing all this in bold- its just locked on bold for some reason, so please understand I am not shouting. I am too emotionally exhausted to shout. I give up- crying uncle....
by Abby Normal on 23 February 2012 - 13:02
Marjorie, I am so sorry to hear that you have experienced this horror twice.
I think you have presented the extensive evidence you have gathered with precision and are succeeding in challenging perceptions about DM testing and research.
Understandably I think, people want to consider and weigh all the information for themselves, and I think it quite natural that a response from the researcher would be considered of much interest, and would give the opportunity to seek answers to some questions that I am sure this debate has raised. It is simply seeking a balanced view and looking at all sides of the issue, as previously stated. You said she would simply say she was right, but the question would be why she would think she was right, in the same way that you have presented why you think she is wrong. For example, I would like to know whether there is a group of dogs being monitored. Whether there are any volunteers testing litters from ‘clear’ dogs etc. Why would we not want to ask questions and seek answers to very relevant questions directly from the source?
I think you should be pleased with that outcome, it means that you have changed some people from ‘accepting’ to ‘questioning’.
Again I am so sorry to hear about Missy, and of course you should be spending all your time with her.
by marjorie on 23 February 2012 - 16:02
Just curious.....Does it really matter WHAT entity finds the correct gene for DM, or multiple genes for DM? What does it matter if they are non profit or profit??? The important thing is to get rid of this scourge of this disease! Is the AKCCHF so lily white because they are a non profit? NO! They actively seek to register dogs from puppy mills and pet stores in the quest of the almighty dollar. I am sick to my stomach, watching politics destroy a breed and my sweet Missie T who will never live to see the summer she loves so much.
How concerned is the AKCCHF about dogs when they rake in money from people who dont give a crap about the dogs or the condition in which they are bred and raised? Is that not hypocrisy at its finest? Personally, I would prefer to see a for profit business find the correct gene or combination of genes ( which is in all likelihood, the case because one simply cannot discount RNA, dark dna, and imprinting) than an entity which raises money on the backs of our fur friends who would give their lives for us! I would sell my soul to the devil to have ANYONE, profit or non profit, find the true answer to the reasons this heartbreaking disease which plagues our breed. The AKCCHF wanted to register dogs at pet stores until the public outcry forced them to cancel this mode of registration. As an organization, they suck. What price glory? To rake in money for dogs bred and born in horrific conditions is a slap in the face to all dog loving people. They suck, even if they are a non profit.
And as far as breeders wanting to the right thing, as far as breeding? LMAO! Please do not tell me the dollar has nothing to do with many who claim to be reputable. Has anyone seen this video on youtube?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2gGaKizk8I
I personally know of a breeder who chic's the sire and dam of her litters. She has won an award from the AKC for being a breeder of merit, because she does CHIC on all her breeding dogs. However, she has multiple litters in her house all the time, and doubles up on lines with epilepsy!! OMG :( She is rewarded with *breeder of merit* award because she pays for their tests (way to rake in more money, AKCCHF), but they care not a whit about the problems she is breeding upon. They have no way of knowing what the breeder is breeding on, but because she does their tests, she is a breeder of merit. Pond scum! Total pond scum. I have not one whit of respect for the AKCCHF. Their money is dirty, IMHHO.
How concerned is the AKCCHF about dogs when they rake in money from people who dont give a crap about the dogs or the condition in which they are bred and raised? Is that not hypocrisy at its finest? Personally, I would prefer to see a for profit business find the correct gene or combination of genes ( which is in all likelihood, the case because one simply cannot discount RNA, dark dna, and imprinting) than an entity which raises money on the backs of our fur friends who would give their lives for us! I would sell my soul to the devil to have ANYONE, profit or non profit, find the true answer to the reasons this heartbreaking disease which plagues our breed. The AKCCHF wanted to register dogs at pet stores until the public outcry forced them to cancel this mode of registration. As an organization, they suck. What price glory? To rake in money for dogs bred and born in horrific conditions is a slap in the face to all dog loving people. They suck, even if they are a non profit.
And as far as breeders wanting to the right thing, as far as breeding? LMAO! Please do not tell me the dollar has nothing to do with many who claim to be reputable. Has anyone seen this video on youtube?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2gGaKizk8I
I personally know of a breeder who chic's the sire and dam of her litters. She has won an award from the AKC for being a breeder of merit, because she does CHIC on all her breeding dogs. However, she has multiple litters in her house all the time, and doubles up on lines with epilepsy!! OMG :( She is rewarded with *breeder of merit* award because she pays for their tests (way to rake in more money, AKCCHF), but they care not a whit about the problems she is breeding upon. They have no way of knowing what the breeder is breeding on, but because she does their tests, she is a breeder of merit. Pond scum! Total pond scum. I have not one whit of respect for the AKCCHF. Their money is dirty, IMHHO.
by marjorie on 23 February 2012 - 16:02
Is anyone else having trouble with this site? It only put up part of my post and when I try to put the entire post, it doesnt go throrugh or allow me to edit?
by Blitzen on 23 February 2012 - 21:02
No problems with this site but I think there is a limt on the number of characters for each post. If it's a long message, you may want to break it into 2 different posts.
Sorry to hear that some of the GSDCA Breeders of Merit are cheating the system. I know some who aren't; I am hoping they are in the majority.
Sorry to hear that some of the GSDCA Breeders of Merit are cheating the system. I know some who aren't; I am hoping they are in the majority.
by marjorie on 24 February 2012 - 00:02
I was finally able to edit, but only in quick edit. Also, yesterday, once I emphasized a word, it made everything bold and I couldnt change it to not bold. Sometimes it wont let me type on the same line- I have to go down a line, even though its just the middle of the line. Weird....
by Abby Normal on 24 February 2012 - 11:02
Marjorie, as you are still posting, can I ask a question.
There is no follow up to show that a carrier will not develop DM, but pass it on. There is already evidence to the contrary. There is also evidence that dogs tested clear have been found to have DM upon necropsy.
What are the current statistics on this, it would support your argument so I am presuming that you are keeping some data on it? This is a 'proof of the pudding' situation. What have the UofM/OFA said about these cases?
There is no follow up to show that a carrier will not develop DM, but pass it on. There is already evidence to the contrary. There is also evidence that dogs tested clear have been found to have DM upon necropsy.
What are the current statistics on this, it would support your argument so I am presuming that you are keeping some data on it? This is a 'proof of the pudding' situation. What have the UofM/OFA said about these cases?
by Blitzen on 24 February 2012 - 14:02
I would like to see the DNA results of puppies produced by at risk x at risk.
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