breeding snafu? Help! - Page 6

I'd like to ask the mouse color expert if black is recessive in mice as it is in GSDs, and sable is dominant?  Or is spotted/white dominant?  Is any color in mice dominant?  How are the color genes in mice passed on to the offspring?  In GSDs the parents each carry two, each puppy gets one from each parent.  Variations within each color can depend on which recessive gene the pup inherits (or doesn't inherit) - so how can it be even remotely similar when mice carry many more colors, and variations of each color including spots and other markings? 
even in dogs, some breeds are dominant black, like labs.  Or let's pick a breed that is always black and never any other color - dominant black - Patterdale Terriers?  Or, flat coated retrievers?  Newfoundlands - then they come in white spotted "Landseers" but black is dominant, right?  So, they are not related in color genetics to GSDs, yet they are canine, closer in genetics to GSDs than mice, right?

Heres another one I was thinking about today.  Different breed - Belgian Shepherds.  Originally all "the same breed" with different coat types and colors.  Malinois and Lakenois are always (nearly always?) fawn with black points.  With variations of the fawn color and black points - some a bit darker, some a bit lighter.  But they are <almost> never black, or dark mahogany like Belgian Sheepdogs (long coated solid black always) and Tervurans (long coated deep mahogany sable always) - how come Tervs aren't usually fawn (I've never seen a fawn Terv) - and how come Belgian Sheepdogs are always black and long-coated?  They are all the same base breed right?  And within a litter of each can come a puppy of the other - two Malinois parents (fawn, short-coated) can produce a Tervuran (long coat mahogany sable) or Sheepdog (long coat black) or Lakenois (fawn wire-coat).  And then you can pursue the thought that each "breed" isn't different just because of the coat type and color - even when born in the same litter or with similar bloodlines - the temperament, drives and nerve strengths are also quite different with each, making each an individual breed, even though they are still considered in some countries to be the same breed, with different coat colors and types! 
And where did that Brindle coat on the Dutch Shepherd come from?  Another  Interesting, that.

I'll keep sticking to the simple GSD color genetics - two colors per parent, one gene given from each to each pup, dominant color always rules, recessive influences the variation and offspring of each pup.   See how simple that can be?  One sentence and it's done.  Unless someone can produce a sable dog proven to be born from two non-sable parents?  None yet..... not holding my breath.

molly

The order of dominance in mice is the same, for the same series, of the same chromosome locus.  As you know, other loci can affect its expression.  For example the masking gene that will produce the dark muzzle phenotype is NOT controlled from the agouti locus.  Dominant black in other canine breeds is NOT controlled from the agouti locus.

At ANY Chromosome location, there are two alleles, and the offspring inherit one copy from each parent.  This is not unique to german shepherds, but to all heterosexually producing animals.  If you can't understand this fundamental principle, I can't help you.

There are many other sources for information of other canine colors, but this thread was pertaining to color patterns which are controlled from the agouti locus.  So for brevety, let's stay relevant.

Each of the agouti series has evolved (by Loss Of Function mutation) from the original wild-type (the A^w allele), and reverse mutations have been documented to occur, as well as intentionally reproduced results in a lab.  What is the difficulty in "getting" that?

Are you so stubborn, to notice I was challenging not only your own statement, but my own as well?  What may be true most of the time, just isn't true all of the time.  So get over it.

"THERE IS NO, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA, NEVER IN A MILLION TRILLION BAZILLION CHANCES IN THE DEPTHS OF HELL that this sable puppy - if it's indeed a sable - came from that sire. NO CHANCE."

Sounds so overzealous and opinionated, doesn't it?