So who are the bad breeders? - Page 5

For Charlie319,
Sigh.....Finally a person who understands breeding and consequently "bad breeding," is a breath of fresh air. To even suggest that a particular color(which happens to be not the dominant color of the breed genetically) is the "standard" for show dogs is indicative of a knowledgw base that is the foundation for the breed today. There is no such thing as show lines or working lines to my way of thinking. There are only good working dogs with excellent structure, that if showed will highlight their excellent structure. Bad breeding is good show dogs that happen to work instead of good working dogs that have nice structure. There is a difference in the two and if you don't understand the difference your breeding knowledge is flawed, IMHO.

GSDS Rule
You have got to be kidding. Are you talking about American German SHepherds? Because if you are then you do have to worry about the extreme slope and bad hips and legs. I agree with you in that the American German Shepherd breeders and judges love THAT look. German judges are disgusted by what American GSDs look like. Also German show lines work! They do not just show, they must be titled to breed. They also must pass a courage test for temperment and nerves under pressure. American GSDs can be bred and AKC registered as long as they have AKC parents. Breeding to the German standards is much more regulated (DNA, titled parents, hips and elbows). A breeder can breed any two AKC registered dogs even if they have two heads as long as the parents were registered GSD. Walah! The puppies are AKC registed too. AKC does not monitor breeding standards, that is not their mission. Worried about the breed? Start in your own backyard, not bash the well bred dogs. Perhaps you are confused about breed standards as someone here pointed out.

I meant every word I said.
I don't care what show people SAY, this is what is happening.




And the American version:

But it's JUST A BAD STACK!!  If the handler knew what he/she was doing, the dog wouldn't look like that...

GSDSRule, have you been raiding my 'ugly dog' file?  


Gustav, thank you for setting showshepherd4me straight about the history of the GSD. I was gritting my teeth after I read that post! 

IMO, the WORST thing that ever happened to our breed was the split between show lines and working lines. The split between American and German lines comes a close second.

IMHO.neither of those 2 gsds have the correct backline.they are both horrendous to my eyes.the 1st photo shows an animal which has been hunched up and in the 2nd is overstretched,but i still feel if left to stand naturally they still would be incorrect.i am a showline exhibitor from the uk with the international type .a photo of my bitch aged 18 months(she is now 7 and has more substance on her)is on the thread on PDB re.FLIPPANT COMMENTS.no way would i place either of these 2 animals .Carole Spelman

*Cringes at the Ambred*  That has gotta be one of the worst I've ever had the misfortune to see a picture of.....

I do however (And I have working lines)  Think both of those pictures are not representative of the majority.

There are good and bad in all types. 

Some breeders have closed minds, nevermind closed eye's when it comes to their dogs!

Well those pictures will centainly inflame people.

Hi Gustav:

It is always a pleasure to read your contributions to the forum.  I don't hold myself up as any kind of authority on anything, but even I can see that the breed is being managed on the whim of a market that is mostly uninformed, easily impressed with a pedigree that may, or may not, guarantee that the dog will have a propensity for the function the buyer has in mind, breeders all to happy to cater to the market and by a training industry that has only succeded in watering down the SchH to a trial that does NOT truly assess if the dog is corageous but rewards the distillation of prey drive over a more civil and reliable performer.  High prey drive is not only easier to train, but it is less risky from both the vantage point of pushing a dog too far on "fight or flight", as well as from the standpoint of having to train a dog that is as likely to go for the man as he is to go for the sleeve.

The sad state of the breed is that it has been allowed to split into two camps, when in reality it is all one breed.  I believe that ego and economical interests are to blame for this state of affairs.  The GSD is a working breed, and not a breed developed for its aesthetics.  That the shows have been set up for decades to handicap dogs that can and do perform, in favor of dogs that have a hard time keeping up on the field, only tells us how far have these interests corroded and contaminated the breed and fed the current split.  One has only to read some of the arguments between sho and working lines folks to see how well this ill seed has taken.

I found most of my pictures here.

If a peta member was on fire, I wouldn't walk across the road to spit on them.
I might be persuaded to throw red paint on them.

To say that GSD of  "show" breeding do not show up in rescue is the height of foolishness. Are you are every shelter? I think not.  EVERY "puppymill" breeder says the same thing: "there are NO so and so breed in rescue!"  I've heard it a million times in my many, many years in animal control! Ha! No show shepherds in rescue! That's rich.  In 60 seconds I came up with these three dogs which certainly "could" be of show breeding = who really knows?  It's hard to say as most rescues don't come with their pedigrees. If a breeder does not microchip EVERY one of their pups, they have NO idea where they end up!
  
http://www.gsdrescue.org/adopt_mimi.html
http://photocache.petfinder.com/fotos/IL67/IL67.15847080-2-pn.jpg
http://www.gsrne.org/images/champ%20web/Champ-5130.JPG

As to what show shepherds really look like, well, go check out the win pictures in any "Show" (non AKC) magazine. Like USA or WDA. I picture a few here, picked at random from a kennel known for winning big. So, their dogs must represent what is winning and what "show" shepherds are being selected for (only reason I picked this kennel, I am not "picking on them" only using them as an example as they win alot).


http://www.mittelwest.com/German%20Shepherd%20Dog%20Pictures/osha.jpg
http://www.mittelwest.com/German%20Shepherd%20Dog%20Pictures/aspen6-0833-j600.JPG

Look at this top winning male's back and tell me it is "straight". It IS NOT. It breaks halfway down. THAT IS WHAT IS BEING SELECTED FOR.  
V1 Yasso  http://www.mittelwest.com/German%20Shepherd%20Dog%20Pictures/Yassostandmay(1).jpg

True lovers of the breed do not "pick sides". They try and keep the breed true and whole. Not divided into two breeds; working and show. For pete's sake.

And the comment about the "standard" color being black and red was priceless!