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by hexe on 03 August 2010 - 20:08
<sigh> Fanaticism of any stripe is typically narrow-minded and given to gloom and doom predictions to those who don't follow their chosen path exactly, so I'm not going to post any further on this thread after this.
uvw, if you'd posted an article that was balanced,reasonable and didn't try to pass off a bowl of Cheerios as dog food, which didn't cite research conducted almost 70 years ago on an unrelated species, which didn't make claims that can't be substantiated, which wasn't written by someone wh: (a) provides no credentials qualifying them to give advice on pet nutrition, and (b)--the big point of contention-- WASN'T THE FOUNDER OF A RAW-FEEDING BASED BUSINESS-- I wouldn't have given it a second thought, because I really don't have anything against people feeding raw if they've educated themselves about the risks and benefits and can ensure that their pets nutritional needs are fully met. It's rather disingenuous for the author of the article to damn commercial dog food manufacturers for being greedy and only pushing product for the dollar when the author herself fails to mention in the same article that she, too, is pushing a feeding style the benefits her monetarily.
In addition, one of the sources cited in that article, the Animal Protection Institute, is 'an animal advocacy organization', which sounds like a good thing...but a visit to their site shows that they have an agenda that includes regulating the sources of your raw food products to a degree which would likely make obtaining such material financially out of reach for most pet owners. So be careful who you get 'in bed' with when you're prostelytizing.
rottguy1980, I am a vet tech, but I haven't worked in a private practice setting for almost 20 years now, and my work has been strictly farm animal related since then. Despite that, I take great offense at your snide remark, "no money job working for a vet", because like the all best vets, techs, and human nurses, doctors and dentists, I didn't go into the field of veterinary medicine for financial gain--I went into it for the love of the patients, the help I could give them and the comfort I could provide them. Caregiving, health-care and teaching aren't just jobs--they're callings, every bit as much as a person is called to be a preacher, rabbi or mullah. If the paycheck is the be-all and end-all of your occupation, then I sincerely hope you're not in any field that involves providing care for another living being (I'd include teaching in that category as well, but I can tell I've no need to worry that you're an educator simply by your posts).
Yes, I've fed Iams for eons--twenty-eight years, I believe, counting back to my previous GSD--and what that has to do with my being a vet tech is lost on me... Yes, all of my dogs have lived significantly beyond the norm for their breeds; the sled dogs lived into their teens, before I had GSDs, and they were fed <gasp> BlueSeal Ultra27, which was a popular feed among the sled dog folks at that time and kept the dogs in good health and good physical condition.
No, I had no problems with the Iams feed during either of the recalls. The last one, involving the melamine, didn't include the product I use, if one looks at the recall list. No matter what one feeds, even if you're raising and slaughtering the meat source yourself, there's a risk of contamination involved as long as there are humans involved in any fashion.
Look, I don't care what YOU feed your animals, either one of you. Feed 'em whatever works for you AND for your animals. I have farmers who laugh at me because my cows get oat, apple and molases horse treats, but I like them to come when I call them, so I give them treats, it works for me, and it works for my cows. B
by FHTracker on 03 August 2010 - 20:08
by hexe on 03 August 2010 - 20:08
To continue...
But it isn't fair to come to a site like this and evangelize about raw feeding, alleging that commerical feeds are responsible for all of the ailments seen in dogs, and virtually promising that if only an owner would feed raw, then their all their dog's problems would disappear, and they wouldn't have to worry about illnesses and cancers...because that's simply not true. It's not fair to try and make owners who can't or choose not to feed raw appear to be taking less than the best care of their animals, either. And it's not fair to make such claims without noting that the article cited is written by someone who has a business that revolves around raw feeding.
Oh, and one more point--I find it interesting that one of the battle cries of the Raw Food Zealots is that the greedy commercial pet food manufacturers don't care about the health of the pets eating their product, they just care about the money generated... Aside from the fact that this makes little sense--why would you kill off the very consumers of your product???--it has not escaped my notice that a myriad of raw food manufacturers, marketers and suppliers have sprung up to take advantage of the raw feed movement. So far, I haven't found any of these enterprises to be GIVING away the products, or even selling them at cost...so it would appear these are also commercial pet food purveyors who are looking to make a profit as well. And this would make them different from the traditional commercial pet food manufacturer because.....???
Fini!
by GSDSRULE on 04 August 2010 - 00:08
going to have to suffer.
You know, life is just a crapshoot anyway and I feed what I can afford and what my dogs do well on.
by uvw on 04 August 2010 - 00:08
if there wasn't a little ounce of guilt in you, and you thought you were 100% correct with the way you are feeding your dogs, you wouldn't be continuously posting your views here...like the rest of the people who choose to feed kibble, they open the thread, read it, disagree, close it, and move on. you just can't seem to move on.
i sited more than just one source...research on people and processed foods, research on cats and processed foods, and research on wolves (which if you read, you would also find they used dogs) from two of the leading biologists/researchers on the subject. how is that information irrelevant? sunsilver was making comparisons to apes and pandas?!?
the author of the article, me, never hid the fact that i was the founder of a raw food business. that's why it's right in your face on my bio. i'm surprised it took you this long to try and "find" something on me to discredit me. nor did i ever say that raw feeding was a miracle cure and would solve every health problem, but boy does it help a lot for most.
and finally, before you open your mouth and have verbal diarrhea about something you know NOTHING about...i DO sell at cost to those who adopt animals, care for sick animals, have ridiculous medical expenses for their animals, or just don't have the funds to feed their animals well. Not only that, but I spend hours via phone and email to help people switch their animals to raw throughout the country, with suppliers and farms in their areas that have absolutely nothing to do with me. and to top it off, i feed animals at the local shelter at NO COST, from my own pocket, including supplements when needed.
why? because it makes a difference, helps improve health, and is the right thing to do. when was the last time you did something for someone, other than try to slam them on a forum?
sincerely,
donna lerner
raw basics llc
references can be provided
by Slamdunc on 04 August 2010 - 18:08
uvw,
Very good posts. I have fed raw for about 4 years and would never go back to dry food. I also worked in the pet industry for years and know some of the manufacturing processes that kibble go through. People need to research the "4D's" and find out what actually goes into dog food. Rottguy mentioned some of it. I also worked my way through college in a restaurant and owned a restaurant later on; I had a company pick up my grease from my deep fry machines. We put all of the grease into a 55 gallon drum and at times some really nasty stuff wound up in there. I later found out this went to a rendering plant to be used in dog food.
I understand feeding raw is not for everyone. it is a little more expensive and requires more time and effort. But after my research and watching other dogs fed raw and their energy level and overall health I will not feed anything else. My dogs do great on it and it is very apparent when comparing them to other working police dogs or GSD's. My 11 year female still runs around like a young dog.
Feed what you feel is best for your dog, just don't get caught up in the hype from multi million dollar marketing campaigns. There is a reason that P&G and many other huge companies have bought out most of the pet product manufacturers, $$$$$$.
Do your own research and decide what you feel is best.
JMO FWIW,
Jim
by uvw on 04 August 2010 - 18:08
it can definitely be a little more expensive, but if you're crafty, and are willing to put some effort in you can find some great sources for inexpensive or free meat.
good luck with your girl, i hope she brings you many more years of company and happiness
by Dex on 04 August 2010 - 18:08
It's each to there own - I personally would need to know a lot more about raw before I take that step. I think both methods though have their good and bad points - but anyone that were to ram their thoughts down my thoat (not saying that is happening with most on here) would get a thumbs down straight away.
by aceofspades on 05 August 2010 - 02:08
But you're okay with your dog licking it's butt then licking you?
I feed kibble, but allow my dogs to eat raw meat as well, so I'm not on one team or the other. I would love to do RAW 100% of the time but it just isn't practical for me right now. I do give RMB's and when we go fishing the dogs LOVE to eat the Roe and organs....and sometimes the heads. Yummmm (yuck...lol) I think that our old dogs walked off with a moose leg or two over the years as well.
by Pharaoh on 05 August 2010 - 03:08
Short version: I was really in a bind. I had read "Reigning Cats and Dogs" and their crazy complicated system sounded safer but resulted in upset tummies. So, I went to the store and bought some fleshy chicken backs with everything up through the neck. I gave it to both of my dogs and it was a miracle over night.
It is not a religion, I adapt to circumstances and no need to proselityze.
I really like www.greentripe.com/ I order the excalibur in one pount chubbs and have it delivered frozen to my doorstep. I used to order from www.excelk9diet.com/home.htm and probably will again. They have different recipes and use salmon oil instead of vegetable oil. They also have special needs diets www.excelk9diet.com/menu.htm.
Mostly, Pharaoh likes big pieces of chicken. I just got some leg quarters at .49 a pound. I bought a bunch and wrapped them individually and put them in the freezer. When I see whole chickens at a good price, I buy it and serve it fresh. Sometimes I get tins of sardines packed in water with no salt. Sometimes I give him raw eggs. He loves to chomp the bones like a kid with corn chips. He chews very thoroughly. I have never seen chicken bones in his stool. He probably has good stomach acid.
Recently I stayed at a hotel for two months waiting for my new house to be ready, I had only a small refrigerator in the kitchenette. I bought Taste of the Wild wetlands formula (no vegetable oils or flax). Pharaoh is related to my previous dog with the allergies so I play it safe with good results. (lines to Don Rolandsteich through both parents several times). I fed his normal raw chicken in the morning and lightly soaked kibble in the evening.
Now I am in my new house and I have a freezer full of green tripe (excalibur mix). I was still giving him TOTW for a while. He has a girlfriend next door and they French Kiss through the fence. She is an older dog and quite skinny and has some health issues. He started having diarrhea so I quite the kibble meals and just gave him raw chicken on the bone. In one day his stool went to normal and has been since then. In a few weeks I will have a fence and they will still be able to see each other but not such close contact. At that point I will give him soaked kibble from time to time.
I just do what works and I only have one dog.
Michele
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