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by kitkat3478 on 08 July 2013 - 15:07
Joan- here's to seeing me and Ember at the nationals one of these days.
Parrish told me he was sending me a dog I can get there with.....(just kidding)
I do however believe I may not go national, but I am going to give sch another try. I did nnot pick my pup, I picked the litter.
Parrish did tell me she was a very confident ,alpha female, and from what I am seeing so far, he is right.
Often times, we do not get to test the pup we are getting and we must count on the breeder to tell us the REAL deal with the pup.
That is why I say, you MUST have faith. In the breeder. They know the pups best.
Parrish told me he was sending me a dog I can get there with.....(just kidding)
I do however believe I may not go national, but I am going to give sch another try. I did nnot pick my pup, I picked the litter.
Parrish did tell me she was a very confident ,alpha female, and from what I am seeing so far, he is right.
Often times, we do not get to test the pup we are getting and we must count on the breeder to tell us the REAL deal with the pup.
That is why I say, you MUST have faith. In the breeder. They know the pups best.
by joanro on 08 July 2013 - 15:07
Could not agree more with you, Wd.
Doesn't take special voodoo to see quality as you described. I've also seen pups that developed self confidence as they aged, and demonstrate no hesitation as when they might have as eight week old. Some do change and are not set in stone, they can be dynamic in development.
Doesn't take special voodoo to see quality as you described. I've also seen pups that developed self confidence as they aged, and demonstrate no hesitation as when they might have as eight week old. Some do change and are not set in stone, they can be dynamic in development.
by Felloffher on 08 July 2013 - 18:07
I'm also a big fan of the "expose the pup to a ton of things and judge it's reaction test". I like to see all the same things workingdogz looks for and prefer the pup that falls out of the womb this way, over the pup that needs to see things a few times before it's 100% confident in any given situation.
by vk4gsd on 08 July 2013 - 19:07
what about the not so hypothetical breeder that cracks a whip/gunfire/dropped saucepan everytime s/he feeds the pups, buyer comes along to "test" reaction and makes a loud noise and all the puppies come running straight at him and climb all over the person making the noise - good test of genetics??? or just Pavlovs puppies, how would you know the difference?
by vonissk on 08 July 2013 - 19:07
Joan and Wdogs both good posts. Vk you will probably get a good laugh out of this but I have been known to sit with a piece of dowel rod and beat out a powwow song on the expen to see who did what and their reaction. I don't drop the pan in top feed--I'd rather sing and beat....LOL.....................
Joan I wanted to comment on the puppy I donated for SAR. When I saw her last and talk to Kelly (handler/trainer) she said she had some sort of little quirk they were working on but because she had been raised so nice and she was such a good trainer she could and would work through it.
One other thing I wanted to add, I expose my pups to everything I can including noises, people, flooring and I provide things for hem to tug on in their expen and also things outside to climb on--rolls of chain link, wire to walk on...everything I can. I also do the Bio Sensor program the military goes by. Not sure it makes a difference but it is a fun thing anyway.....I get to know each individual puppy better...................
Joan I wanted to comment on the puppy I donated for SAR. When I saw her last and talk to Kelly (handler/trainer) she said she had some sort of little quirk they were working on but because she had been raised so nice and she was such a good trainer she could and would work through it.
One other thing I wanted to add, I expose my pups to everything I can including noises, people, flooring and I provide things for hem to tug on in their expen and also things outside to climb on--rolls of chain link, wire to walk on...everything I can. I also do the Bio Sensor program the military goes by. Not sure it makes a difference but it is a fun thing anyway.....I get to know each individual puppy better...................
by vk4gsd on 08 July 2013 - 20:07
haven't personally seen the vid but Koos apparently put on you tube his pups being allegedly seriously stressed/agitated while being fed to show that their "fight" drive to get the food overcame their stress of agitation. lots of people thought it was stright up stupidity and Koos had lost his mind, other fanboys claim it is a great test (of what they cannot say) just because Koos was doing it.
anyone else on the planet did something so possibly cruel and dumb would just be called an idiot but because it was Koos....
again i have not seen the vid but i am sure someone will put a link up.
Vonn, that bio-sensor test i heard was an epic fail in it's goal to create super dogs for the military and has lost all credibility, agree it sounds like fun and a lot of people use it as "secret military super dog" crap in their marketing but is it proven to be anything but a fun harmless way to interact with yr pups????
vonn, also if you sing lady gaga songs to yr pups you know they will become possessed by the devil!!!
anyone else on the planet did something so possibly cruel and dumb would just be called an idiot but because it was Koos....
again i have not seen the vid but i am sure someone will put a link up.
Vonn, that bio-sensor test i heard was an epic fail in it's goal to create super dogs for the military and has lost all credibility, agree it sounds like fun and a lot of people use it as "secret military super dog" crap in their marketing but is it proven to be anything but a fun harmless way to interact with yr pups????
vonn, also if you sing lady gaga songs to yr pups you know they will become possessed by the devil!!!
by workingdogz on 08 July 2013 - 20:07
I guess we are in the minority, we don't believe in throwing everything and then some at
a litter to 'get them used to it'. We'd rather see a litter raised under normal every day
circumstances, and see what is really 'bare bones' the dog, as opposed to conditioning
puppies to every little thing. A good example of that can be seen when a pup is shipped
over a long distance, how does the pup come out of the crate? Does it take the pup 2-3
days to get over being shipped? Or does the pup come out acting like they have been there
forever? Do they go off their food? digestive issues from stress etc?
So much it seems is done to try to 'make' puppies into something they are just not wired to be.
Square peg round hole syndrom I guess. Gun shyness is a prime example, conditioning pups to
loud sudden noises does nothing but aid in covering weak nerves IMO.
This is why we stick to breeders who do things the old way, no 'super uber puppy playgrounds',
no 'noise soundtracks' playing etc etc.
a litter to 'get them used to it'. We'd rather see a litter raised under normal every day
circumstances, and see what is really 'bare bones' the dog, as opposed to conditioning
puppies to every little thing. A good example of that can be seen when a pup is shipped
over a long distance, how does the pup come out of the crate? Does it take the pup 2-3
days to get over being shipped? Or does the pup come out acting like they have been there
forever? Do they go off their food? digestive issues from stress etc?
So much it seems is done to try to 'make' puppies into something they are just not wired to be.
Square peg round hole syndrom I guess. Gun shyness is a prime example, conditioning pups to
loud sudden noises does nothing but aid in covering weak nerves IMO.
This is why we stick to breeders who do things the old way, no 'super uber puppy playgrounds',
no 'noise soundtracks' playing etc etc.
by Slamdunc on 08 July 2013 - 20:07
Vk4gsds,
You haven't read the article you started this thread about or even seen the video with Koos and his "adult" dogs;
but you start a thread on it or mention it? Why don't you read the article or look up Koos' video? I had dinner with Koos last year and we discussed the video. Sometimes it helps to read an article or watch the video so you can form your own opinion? Just a thought, no offense intended.
You haven't read the article you started this thread about or even seen the video with Koos and his "adult" dogs;
but you start a thread on it or mention it? Why don't you read the article or look up Koos' video? I had dinner with Koos last year and we discussed the video. Sometimes it helps to read an article or watch the video so you can form your own opinion? Just a thought, no offense intended.
by vk4gsd on 08 July 2013 - 20:07
slam no offense taken and good point, you missed the point about the article, it is in a pro science journal and you have to pay to access it. i haven't done so cos i do not know the journal or am that motivated to pay for it. i will search for the Koos clip - none the less i value the comments and my opinions are only to start discussion, not opinions i am particularly standing by.
by Gustav on 08 July 2013 - 21:07
Working dogs....you are so right about head and tails, and it can be done with familiar litter or first time seeing litter.
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