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by Prager on 21 January 2013 - 16:01
Dantes I fully agree. This Rinus is definitely not to be blamed for fr much. Derrick you presented very weak case. Based on x rays the hips definitely do not warrant any negativity from you or most of all surgery.
by Slamdunc on 21 January 2013 - 16:01
Rinus is a fairly well known guy in GSD circles.
by derrick on 21 January 2013 - 22:01
The dog could not get up without yelping would not even run for a ball.You would leve the dog in pain.Rinus should not have sold a dog from a buddy at my expense Guess it depends on witch recieving side of the deal u were own if it was good derrick
by Hundmutter on 21 January 2013 - 22:01
Derrick it is really unfortunate that the dog was in pain; so of
course you had to get something done about it. But the X rays
are at least ambiguous. Not to say a dog with a really good
set of hips can't still get symptoms - one of the awful things
about HD is that it can appear where it ought not to be; and
just as easily NOT happen when by rights it should. There
are a number of factors which affect this (environmental,
feeding and exercise regimes, how much muscle mass the
dog has). The dog must be genetically disposed to it, first &
formost, but after that, it isn't always textbook normal.
It is also true that there could have been some OTHER condition
responsible for the pain, and - just as you said the breeder isn't a
God - Vets are not infallible. Some are so sure all hind end conditions
with GSDs are HD related, they don't even consider other possibilities
properly, Unfortunately there is no way you can insure against that
happening in you or your dogs life, either.
course you had to get something done about it. But the X rays
are at least ambiguous. Not to say a dog with a really good
set of hips can't still get symptoms - one of the awful things
about HD is that it can appear where it ought not to be; and
just as easily NOT happen when by rights it should. There
are a number of factors which affect this (environmental,
feeding and exercise regimes, how much muscle mass the
dog has). The dog must be genetically disposed to it, first &
formost, but after that, it isn't always textbook normal.
It is also true that there could have been some OTHER condition
responsible for the pain, and - just as you said the breeder isn't a
God - Vets are not infallible. Some are so sure all hind end conditions
with GSDs are HD related, they don't even consider other possibilities
properly, Unfortunately there is no way you can insure against that
happening in you or your dogs life, either.
by Prager on 22 January 2013 - 02:01
Derrick I do not want to badger you or be antagonistic. You seem like a nice guy. But I will tell you without much reservation that I see it all the time where the dog has pain caused by other condition then hips and it is blamed on hips. It this case there are 5 points which i will make.
1. hips like that do not cause pain. These are actually pretty good hips. As positioned that would be no worse then borderline and if positioned properly I would say that could maybe even get OFA fair if not OFA Good!
2. And even if the hips would be bad. Pain is caused not by hip dysplasia (HD) but by arthritis and associated inflammation which is a result of HD. Arthritis usually does not set in not much earlier then at 4 or 5 years of age of the dog and rarely get painful to the degree which is described by you before 8 years of age. And even then it is often caused by poor spine and not by HD
Also from what I can see on these poor x rays the x rays do not display any artheritis.
3. I would say that your dog had most likely self correcting condition of panosteitidis. You are describing typical symptoms of it! Pano is nothing and will always go away by itself.
I am dwelling on this so much only because I see many people put needlessly down dogs to end their "HD caused suffering" where pano or repairable soft tissue injury is the cause, but pain is blamed eronerously on bad hips instead.
And your dog does not even have bad hips!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4. This is also emphesized by the fact that the questionable procedure -the surgery, did not help. It did not help and considering that the dog according to the x rays does not have bad hips, probably actually made the dog worse.
Anyway enough said. I just hope that you and others have learned from this.
5. Actually if I would be you I would apologize profusely to Rinus. And direct your anger against vet or your self or better yet get over it and enjoy your new dog. Life is too short to be angry this long.
Prager Hans
1. hips like that do not cause pain. These are actually pretty good hips. As positioned that would be no worse then borderline and if positioned properly I would say that could maybe even get OFA fair if not OFA Good!
2. And even if the hips would be bad. Pain is caused not by hip dysplasia (HD) but by arthritis and associated inflammation which is a result of HD. Arthritis usually does not set in not much earlier then at 4 or 5 years of age of the dog and rarely get painful to the degree which is described by you before 8 years of age. And even then it is often caused by poor spine and not by HD
Also from what I can see on these poor x rays the x rays do not display any artheritis.
3. I would say that your dog had most likely self correcting condition of panosteitidis. You are describing typical symptoms of it! Pano is nothing and will always go away by itself.
I am dwelling on this so much only because I see many people put needlessly down dogs to end their "HD caused suffering" where pano or repairable soft tissue injury is the cause, but pain is blamed eronerously on bad hips instead.
And your dog does not even have bad hips!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4. This is also emphesized by the fact that the questionable procedure -the surgery, did not help. It did not help and considering that the dog according to the x rays does not have bad hips, probably actually made the dog worse.
Anyway enough said. I just hope that you and others have learned from this.
5. Actually if I would be you I would apologize profusely to Rinus. And direct your anger against vet or your self or better yet get over it and enjoy your new dog. Life is too short to be angry this long.
Prager Hans
by derrick on 22 January 2013 - 18:01
Last post new dod has been great seems funny after dery surgery he could move around with out yelping had plenty emails saying hips bad As for Rinus if was not stuck in this chair Would have looked at semenars any were close to my state went and fond him Lets go find patch of woods settle man to man kicked his aaa but Rinus might be bad mff i would have given all my heart an soul may have lost But none of this chit chat would have happened derrick
by Nancy on 22 January 2013 - 20:01
All this chit chat may help your next dog if you have an orthopedic problem.
Get to a specialist if it involves the bones unless it is something simple like a broken toe-most major breaks and stuff will be seen in doggie ERs and specialists usually work there.
Your hip x-rays honestly do NOT look that bad.
Most local vets are poorly versed in orthopedics.
THIS dog lived a full happy life without much pain and NEVER needed surgery.
The only time I had to give her anti-inflammatory medicines was when it was cold and wet, but otherwise, no.
These were taken at a little less than 3 years. Bad images but it is pretty clear how bad the hips are with severe arthritic remodeling.
The positioning was not good but for that kind of damage the ortho vet did not need to take more x-rays. I carried them from my local vet to him.
I just took good care of her and kept her lean and well muscled.
Get to a specialist if it involves the bones unless it is something simple like a broken toe-most major breaks and stuff will be seen in doggie ERs and specialists usually work there.
Your hip x-rays honestly do NOT look that bad.
Most local vets are poorly versed in orthopedics.
THIS dog lived a full happy life without much pain and NEVER needed surgery.
The only time I had to give her anti-inflammatory medicines was when it was cold and wet, but otherwise, no.
These were taken at a little less than 3 years. Bad images but it is pretty clear how bad the hips are with severe arthritic remodeling.
The positioning was not good but for that kind of damage the ortho vet did not need to take more x-rays. I carried them from my local vet to him.
I just took good care of her and kept her lean and well muscled.
by Prager on 24 January 2013 - 02:01
Derrick.....What ever.
Prager Hans
Prager Hans
by aaykay on 24 January 2013 - 10:01
To be quite honest, I am still trying to figure out what the current problem of Derrick is, which caused him to create this thread.
by Hundmutter on 24 January 2013 - 11:01
He has explained that already. He was disapointed
with the PP dog he was sold because something
was wrong with it, he was advised that was HD, he
feels the breeder should never have bred a dog like
that, or, worse, sold it to him at great expense as a
healthy animal. He therefore feels justified in raising
the issue at intervals, to warn other buyers off from
that kennel.
Of course, the water is muddied by the fact that
Derrick's story changes subtly every time he raises
it. One is no longer sure (nor was I when he posted
the story originally) which of two people he wants to
'expose' most; nor whether they are still trading; nor
whether their breeding methods have improved six
years later.
Added to which, this was bought as an adult, PPtrained
dog - there seem to be other performance-related issues,
plus after he'd owned it a couple of years it bit him. So:
not a happy bunny; but its everyones fault but Derricks,
or so it would seem. Any clearer, Aaykay ?
with the PP dog he was sold because something
was wrong with it, he was advised that was HD, he
feels the breeder should never have bred a dog like
that, or, worse, sold it to him at great expense as a
healthy animal. He therefore feels justified in raising
the issue at intervals, to warn other buyers off from
that kennel.
Of course, the water is muddied by the fact that
Derrick's story changes subtly every time he raises
it. One is no longer sure (nor was I when he posted
the story originally) which of two people he wants to
'expose' most; nor whether they are still trading; nor
whether their breeding methods have improved six
years later.
Added to which, this was bought as an adult, PPtrained
dog - there seem to be other performance-related issues,
plus after he'd owned it a couple of years it bit him. So:
not a happy bunny; but its everyones fault but Derricks,
or so it would seem. Any clearer, Aaykay ?
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