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by VomMarischal on 21 March 2011 - 16:03
ANYBODY who ever buys a puppy from Judy Malone, Judy Dominguez, or Janice Bartmess IS JUST AS GUILTY AS THAT BARTMESS POS. You all know. If you participate, you are loading more feces on that old lady and you are causing dogs to live and die in untold misery. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. If nobody bought dogs from those people, they would STOP WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
by vonissk on 21 March 2011 - 19:03
Mobjack you said people have known what's going on for all these years--or the eqivalent of it anyway. Just wanted to say yesterday I looked up an old topic on here about AZ Black Shepherds--it was dated 2009--and the gist of it was a man was going to buy a dog from Judy and decided not to and she was decent enough to return his deposit to him.........Janice had the puppies at her house and got on here and said how she never wanted him to have a puppy in the first place. blah blah blah. The point I am making by bringing this up that in 4 or 5 pages you should see the people that defended Judy and Janice and what great people they were and how much dog sense they had and how they were so good to their dogs. I was shocked at some of the people that defended them.
VM very good post and you said a mouthful.
The other thing I am going to say regarding these elite bloodlines--this is JMO--I think that most of the DDR breeders are not doing it to save the lines--I think it is all about the dollar bill--hell yeah as long it is 100% DDR breed it, make those pups and please never pay attention to what lines might or might not compliment each other. No it's never about preserving anything it's about money as I have already said. I've said this before and I will stick by it because it's how I believe. And I don't believe you neccesarily have to be a breeder to figure it out.........
VM very good post and you said a mouthful.
The other thing I am going to say regarding these elite bloodlines--this is JMO--I think that most of the DDR breeders are not doing it to save the lines--I think it is all about the dollar bill--hell yeah as long it is 100% DDR breed it, make those pups and please never pay attention to what lines might or might not compliment each other. No it's never about preserving anything it's about money as I have already said. I've said this before and I will stick by it because it's how I believe. And I don't believe you neccesarily have to be a breeder to figure it out.........
by Jenni78 on 21 March 2011 - 20:03
They will always have people buying their puppies because there will always be internet buyers who don't research and want a pretty, dark dog w/a big head.
It's the same old story; look back on the Alt-Ostland threads and see who defended her....before they all went off and joined her private forum.
It's the same old story; look back on the Alt-Ostland threads and see who defended her....before they all went off and joined her private forum.
by Jenni78 on 21 March 2011 - 20:03
And I have to say to some people, it IS about preservation...just unfortunately not to those people. I care very much about preserving some particular traits. I studied long and hard for many years and maybe that's why I find it so sad that someone w/so much knowledge, as Janice has, can treat a living thing that way. I guess it's easier to picture monsters like her as ignorant, not educated.
Vonissk, I remember that thread (the first half of it). No one had ever heard of Judy D., really, and the guy who was griping was a known pain in the butt, so many jumped to her defense just because a lot already knew what he was like. It's interesting to read the thread now, though, and know that Janice was the "friend" who had the dogs. It has a totally different feel to it now. Scary!
Vonissk, I remember that thread (the first half of it). No one had ever heard of Judy D., really, and the guy who was griping was a known pain in the butt, so many jumped to her defense just because a lot already knew what he was like. It's interesting to read the thread now, though, and know that Janice was the "friend" who had the dogs. It has a totally different feel to it now. Scary!
by Mystere on 21 March 2011 - 21:03
Quote by VM:
"*Bartmess dogs*
by VomMarischal on 20 March 2011 - 16:03 VomMarischal
Posts: 1019
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 01:48 am
Vehement discussions of Janice Bartmess have been ensuing at pdb for over a year. Any dog owner who had a dog at her place only had to know how to use a google search to find out that those dogs were in terrible hands. They should have spent the last year getting their dogs out of her "kennel." If those owners had a computer, there's no excuse. If they ever went to a GSD club or knew other GSD people, there's no excuse (everybody WITH a computer talks about it). There is NO legitimate reason some poor unsuspecting person would have a dog there and not understand the risks. Those people had dogs there because they knew all about Janice's creepy Frankenstein experiments and hoped to become beneificary to them. My disgusting ex husband used to say, "There's no such thing as a real victim" regarding con cases. Every one of the "victims" of a con had dollar signs in his/her own eyes. Greed makes you a participant in the con, not a vicitim.
There is no way any of the original owners of the Bartmess dogs should have had access to any of them, and that counts Judy Dominguez."
EXCELLENT post! I agree--there are no victims here, as they were all trying to just make a buck off the dogs.
What bloodlines could Barf have possibly have that cannot be found with more ethical, humane and conscientious breeders? There are so many "specialists" in ddr and Czech lines, I just find it difficult to believe that those in her "care" were unique.
"*Bartmess dogs*
by VomMarischal on 20 March 2011 - 16:03 VomMarischal
Posts: 1019
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 01:48 am
Vehement discussions of Janice Bartmess have been ensuing at pdb for over a year. Any dog owner who had a dog at her place only had to know how to use a google search to find out that those dogs were in terrible hands. They should have spent the last year getting their dogs out of her "kennel." If those owners had a computer, there's no excuse. If they ever went to a GSD club or knew other GSD people, there's no excuse (everybody WITH a computer talks about it). There is NO legitimate reason some poor unsuspecting person would have a dog there and not understand the risks. Those people had dogs there because they knew all about Janice's creepy Frankenstein experiments and hoped to become beneificary to them. My disgusting ex husband used to say, "There's no such thing as a real victim" regarding con cases. Every one of the "victims" of a con had dollar signs in his/her own eyes. Greed makes you a participant in the con, not a vicitim.
There is no way any of the original owners of the Bartmess dogs should have had access to any of them, and that counts Judy Dominguez."
EXCELLENT post! I agree--there are no victims here, as they were all trying to just make a buck off the dogs.
What bloodlines could Barf have possibly have that cannot be found with more ethical, humane and conscientious breeders? There are so many "specialists" in ddr and Czech lines, I just find it difficult to believe that those in her "care" were unique.
by vonissk on 21 March 2011 - 22:03
Excellent post Jen. I agree there are many who do care about the dogs and are about preserving the lines and Kudos to them. I love the DDR dogs and would very much like to see them around for a long long time. You're right it is sad that a person like Janice would turn out to be what she was---I read many things on here she had written and was amazed at how well she knew the dogs. And if you talked to her on a one on one basis--which I never had--she had a certain charisma about her and I can see how she could " take someone".
And yes that guy probably was a pain in the ass--I see so many people with problems with their breeder who never try to work it out--they just come on here pissing and moaning. You're right everything is absolutely different now. It all has a different perspective.
And yes that guy probably was a pain in the ass--I see so many people with problems with their breeder who never try to work it out--they just come on here pissing and moaning. You're right everything is absolutely different now. It all has a different perspective.
by mobjack on 21 March 2011 - 23:03
I'm going to get a grip on my temper before I post anymore on this thread. The BS getting slung around is about to get thrown back.
by Jenni78 on 22 March 2011 - 00:03
Mystere, I don't think she has any dogs that are that unique right now; it's more about what she claims to have access to that I'm guessing is what keeps people in her pocket. Some of it, imo, is that she's a legend in her own mind. She and Kris Kristopolous had quite a bit going on back and forth, but besides that, it's mostly dreams, as far as I know. She really believed she had all these plans to resurrect some of these dead dogs by using their semen w/some of Judy's females or females that she'd gotten as payment for stud/semen services. All non-profit, of course. 
The problem w/DDR lines is that almost all you can get your hands on are from the same line (Von Forell has a cool chart on the lines...and go look at who he credits a bunch of his research to <gag>). The gene pool is extremely small, Janice had some lesser-utilized bloodlines, and I think that's what the people who want to use sayings like "pure DDR" are intrigued by. I'm super into studying genetics and bloodlines and pedigrees and all that jazz, but I never could bring myself to buy into that whole "pure" ANYTHING as far as Czech, DDR, West, etc...so I'm not really a good one to comment too much about the value of any of the dogs or their supposed semen, if it exists. I'm more into preserving a certain type than a certain bloodline.
I do wonder why the poor DDR dogs seem to end up in the worst hands though...I think it's that they got trendy, and with trends, come $. With money, comes greed...you do the math. If they (the big J's) can hoard a bunch of pretty dogs w/pure DDR peds, they can sell them to unsuspecting newbies (which seem to make up a LOT of the DDR-lovers out there) they can stay in business and keep a relatively low profile.
I was thinking about this a lot and I'm going to start a new thread, I think. There seems to be a LOT of breeders who are very knowledgeable whose dogs don't benefit from it. It's like they're intellectuals who get so caught up in the specifics and the scholarly aspects of breeding and forget that they're DOGS, living beings w/needs and feelings. I hear way too much about "respected" breeders w/tons of information and experience whose dogs live in dirt runs, crates, 2-3 to a kennel, and who literally almost never get out. Why have them at all?
The problem w/DDR lines is that almost all you can get your hands on are from the same line (Von Forell has a cool chart on the lines...and go look at who he credits a bunch of his research to <gag>). The gene pool is extremely small, Janice had some lesser-utilized bloodlines, and I think that's what the people who want to use sayings like "pure DDR" are intrigued by. I'm super into studying genetics and bloodlines and pedigrees and all that jazz, but I never could bring myself to buy into that whole "pure" ANYTHING as far as Czech, DDR, West, etc...so I'm not really a good one to comment too much about the value of any of the dogs or their supposed semen, if it exists. I'm more into preserving a certain type than a certain bloodline.
I do wonder why the poor DDR dogs seem to end up in the worst hands though...I think it's that they got trendy, and with trends, come $. With money, comes greed...you do the math. If they (the big J's) can hoard a bunch of pretty dogs w/pure DDR peds, they can sell them to unsuspecting newbies (which seem to make up a LOT of the DDR-lovers out there) they can stay in business and keep a relatively low profile.
I was thinking about this a lot and I'm going to start a new thread, I think. There seems to be a LOT of breeders who are very knowledgeable whose dogs don't benefit from it. It's like they're intellectuals who get so caught up in the specifics and the scholarly aspects of breeding and forget that they're DOGS, living beings w/needs and feelings. I hear way too much about "respected" breeders w/tons of information and experience whose dogs live in dirt runs, crates, 2-3 to a kennel, and who literally almost never get out. Why have them at all?
by Uber Land on 22 March 2011 - 01:03
I'd like to comment on the DDR thing and greedy breeders, this persons already been named, so I don't have to say who, but I was told many times "why breed the wg or belgian lines when people were paying $2500+ for the DDR pups?"
by Jenni78 on 22 March 2011 - 01:03
Really, Uber? I had no idea they sold for that much. I have one (Qira, actually a littermate to one of Judy D's dogs) and I paid $1500 for her...same as her breeder has been selling them for since he started breeding them, as far as I know. I know certain "furbaby-type" breeders get away w/selling "pick" and other b.s. "special" pups for close to or upwards of $2k, but I really wasn't aware of anyone routinely selling $2500 DDR pups or that it was considered commonplace that they cost more than WGR or Belgian or Czech or anything else.
F'd up mentality, IMO. Breeding should be about the lines/dogs you most believe in, not the ones who bring the most money.
F'd up mentality, IMO. Breeding should be about the lines/dogs you most believe in, not the ones who bring the most money.
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