Heritablilty of Temperment -- LINES - Page 3

I didn't say he does or doesn't, I'm just trying to understand what you are seeing.

Well, of course you have to keep in mind that the terms we often use mean one thing to one person and another thing to someone else.  And also that, terms like civil aggression, social aggression, and dominance have could have more definite distinctions between them, and shouldn't be used synonomously in substitute of each other, but we all sometimes forget that.  We also need to be reminded of the subjective value a description may hold differently for each of us.

In the case of the OP using the adjetive "very strong" before the word civil, you might suppose the dog has very strong nerve, accomanied by a willingness to bite an unprotected helper.  It's difficult to guess what else could be "very strong" about not being equipment fixated.  Or more likely intended was, that the dog should have very strong social aggression, with willingness to bring the fight without hesitation and while more clearly projecting it's intentions.

Either intended meaning could make a desireable PPD.  I've seen very strong and confident dogs lag a lot more behind than Hawk through the routine, and those type don't have the sharpness required (in a reactive sense) to emanate an intense and serious vibe through their bark and hold.  They are perhaps too confident of themselves to overpretend and make with a convincing display, in what they surely know is not a serious threat warranting their full scale social aggression.

So off-field, in a more convincing setting to the dog, could reveal a more socially aggressive Hawk.  But there are other indicators that being socially aggressive is not a normal behavior for this dog, and it would take a certain situation or context to bring that out, if it's truly there.  But then, if we're discussing an abnormal behavior in the dog, unusual or infrequent, then it's not really a term that should be liberally affixed to its description.  So, I wouldn't.  But, if I can see it in the protection routine, then it would certainly seem appropriate.

Hawk seems like a really nice dog, and I do admire him.  But for my personal preference, I'd want a dog that's a little more 'spot on' in the timing, quicker of mind, and forceful in presence.

Yes, I agree, you can't  assess whether or not a dog is civil by what you see in a trial video.

I like a biddable dog who is clear headed. One who can remain focused in a hectic environment. Without the total package that civil aggression is just a training issue and a waste.

Robin

I have to agree, all three characteristics are preferred in unison, and civil aggression is the least necessary of them and more difficult to breed for in a correct manner.  So, many don't.  Say you breed a dog that is civil/clear/biddable, it's not so likely that all pups will become its likeness.  Some may very well be civil/hectic/stubborn, presenting a greater challenge and possible liability, than if civil aggression were left out of the equation to begin with.  There aren't a lot of breeders in my esimate that are selecting for civil aggression, and doing so successfully.