Front angulation - Page 3

youtube is a good idea if you want comments on a dog, although youshould get Shtal's permission before doing so. I'm not going to download it either.

Edit due to poor judgement on my art.

Best,
Rik

Either same person or somehow related. *shrug*

The original posted started a good discussion about a good subject--it took me a long time to understand what to look for in GSD angulation, and there's always something more to learn.

I will put on youtube sometimes in the future but for now I will remove.



Seems very coincidental that a dog of such poor structure = What dog are you talking about ?




Edit: The user name Royal1 who register 600+ miles away from where I register on this forum.
I communicate with user Royal1.

Royal1 likes my dog :)

Thanks for the question Ibrahim, and all for the informative answers. This is dog-related and educational and the kind of topic I appreciate on this forum.

Please don’t allow the “Shtal-connection” to ruin this thread!

However still awaiting Preston’s response to the question. His posts have been invaluable to me and already clarified much to me personally! Preston please?

Regards
gertv

I was trying to learn about angulation at the same time, I found Shtal's post about his dog as comparison example.
His dog is pretty, but "Shtal-connection" does not make sense on your last post.

BlackthornGSD,

Thank you for the contribution, You brought my attention to an interesting notice (The front arms underneath the withers or infront of them), very interesting really,  first time I take notice of it. You are right about it, I have been revising pictures of VA dogs and all of them have their fore arms almost exactly under the withers with protruding chests to varying degrees. You say that when the fore arms are in front of the withers (not under them) that results in a more open angle of shoulder, I do not understand the connection here !!!!????

Ibrahim

Fore arms are exactly under the withers
Notice: If I may add, dog no 1 & 2,  I posted earler have their fore arms under the withers so the probability of correct shoulder angle is more, correct ?

Ibraham,

In the case of the dogs you just posted, they are all VA dogs and thus SHOULD have correct shoulder angulation, with the legs under the withers. In the case of the previous two pictures, the dogs do seem to have quite nice shoulder angulation, the second being somewhat better than the first.

In the case of my dog, you see that the angle from shoulders to withers is fairly correct. But his upper arm is short (the bone between elbow and point of shoulder, the humerus), so his legs are not underneath him. This is geometry, pure and simple.

Other shoulder faults are having the scapula be too upright, the scapula short and the upper arm short, or correct length of scapula and humerus, but still having an open angle.

Here's a diagram of the canine skeleton:





(An excellent article about GSD structure is available here. Also read www.workingdogs.com/lshaw1.htm)

Note that in most breeds, the shoulder angle is more open than in GSDs--



Great Dane standard:



Also, some writers on GSDs say that the 90 degree angle in the standard is inaccurate and it should be closer to 95 degrees.

Christine

Lot of information, I need time to grasp all that.
Ibrahim

Okay, I can not say I am very sure of myself on front angulation now, but I can say I am less lost.
If the correct angle degree is 95, or better put it  this way, the more the angle degree  the better the reach as the lower arm can be pushed more forward, is this correct?

Ibrahim