So who are the bad breeders? - Page 3

Charlie319 I agreed with you up until you wanted to bring working lines into show lines.

Again read the history of the GSD. The GSD lines split to preserve the purity of both lines instead of having mixed up working and show lines which would benefit neither or the breed. You obviously do not know much about show lines or GSDs for that matter.
My comment of Don't Look  was to nicely tell you that you don't have to have show lines. Show lines are not hurting the breed and believe me they work as much if not more than working lines. Show lines are SchH titled and  do conformation. If you have ever showed a dog in conformation you would know how much the dog runs. Not to mention that show dogs can not be fat or out of shape. How do they stay that way? The muscles must be well defined and the dog in peak condition. They get that way by the owners working and working them. GSDs do not take bordom either so the conditioning routine must be varied. I will put my show line dogs up against any GSD for condition and work.

Working, functional, handsome. Okay just for your education- All my show lines work. My male earned his BH and SchH 1 in 2009. He also took first place in conformation at two regional shows, Best in Breed at an AKC show, and first place in breed at the same AKC show. If you know anything about AKC shows, they do not like German lines, and he still won. This was his first year out since he just turned three. I have four more that are training in Schutzhund, agility, search and rescue, article search, and cadaver training. I train five days per week. Do you? Are you working your good old sway backs that much?

Finally, the show lines are the image of the GSD. If I take my working line dog walking, people ask me what kind of dog she is. When I'm out with my show lines people know what they are and marvel at how beautiful they are. Most people have not seen a "real" German Shepherd. Maybe they have seen some washed out American biters, but rarely do they get to see a beautiful show line up close and PET them. Show lines also must be used to being touched, everywhere. Can I come up and run my hands under your dogs as a stranger? Do your dogs stand quietly and behave in stressful situations? The deep red and black with a defined saddle and strong head, ears that are on top of the head make people ooo and ahhh. When I take my SchH dogs to the nursing homes and to 4H demos they knock people out.  Let's see, my dogs show, trial, do community service, promote the breed, help out in disasters, and are beautiful. Damn shame they are so deformed and lazy.

My dogs do all the same things your dogs do, people oh and ah over them all the time, anybody can approach them that is nonthreatening, they go anywhere anytime on any surface, with any noise. They could be seeing eye dogs and I don't have to worry that the unknown will make them reluctant, and the general public tells me they are beautiful. Now I obviously don't know as much about the breed as some, but when color is touted as a requisite for "top" GS then I still have a lot to learn.

Jimh
I think you are being somewhat silly. Let's rephrase it - if I had a labrador that was unsound, it would definitely be considered a health issue. Come to think of it, what other dog breeds accept unsoundness in their breed?  The other and I think correct reason is that it is due to overangulation - well that is certainly against the breed standard (Any tendency to overangulation of the hindquarters reduces the firmness and endurance, and consequently the working ability), so why are the international type continually being bred this way, and why is it being defended?

My post didn't sound like a rant to me, any more than yours did. Perhaps you are getting DP syndrome :)

Missbeeb
Cow hocked doesn't necessarily mean unsound. But, in the same way I replied to Jimh - cow hocks are certainly against the breed standard (The hindlegs are placed slightly backwards; seen from the rear, they are parallel to each other. The hock joints are strong and firm). So again, why accept and defend it?  Is anyone trying to do anything about overangulation and cow hocks (which I also think is also due to overangulation) ?
Re the filming. I know who was filming it and why, but if it wasn't there it couldn't have been found - just can't see how that can be argued with.

Missbeeb
Finally, perhaps everyone could agree if we just decide to pick colours :)

Pointers & Pekes, off the top of my head. 

Cow hocks don't automatically go hand in hand with unsoundness... that's a fact!
 
I'm so weary with repeating myself on various posts... last time, NOBODY I know, simply accepts or defends unsoundness (cow hocks are another issue).  Judges do (largely) address this when presented with it.  However, I repeat, to compare unsoundness with a limp... which you did, displays a real lack of knowledge about animals in general.  Not said to be offensive!
 
Dingo, you asked the question, "does it matter who was filming" and the answer is YES, it's PARAMOUNT.  Not too tough to figure that one out.  If I want to convince you how nasty the "boogie man" is, I'm not going to film him picking flowers for his Granny!

We do have hocky dogs, it's not ideal, nobody wants it and I think we will see less and less of it over the next couple of years.    

We want, very badly to move forward and we're making headway.  I know you (and one or two others) tell us they have the interests of the breed at heart... but I do wonder.  You're enjoying it all too much and it shows imo.

I'm done here, I just don't believe you Dingo, Joepublic... who else?


 
 

Don't like the way show lines look? Don't look.

Balderdash!  Quit breeding freakazoid dogs that make people sick to watch them.
Joan Q Public has eyes and can see what the breeders of these dogs have blinded themselves to in the
quest to fit in with the current fad and WIN.

ASL and GSL, both have been decimated by the flavor of the month fad breeding.

It's gotten pretty damn bad when the dreaded BYB is the only one breeding dogs that look like
normal GSD's.

I have just begun to be aquainted with working lines, they hold the key I think.

Showing for showings sake is always followed by extreme and dangerous decisions.

English Bulldog.  My god, look what has been done to that breed alone.  Criminal.

Missbeeb
If you read my post that is exactly what I said, cow hocks don't necessarily equal unsoundness LOL

Well that is an education, pointers and pekes. I have never seen an unsound pointer presented in the show ring. Perhaps they exist, but they aren't shown - is that the difference - that pointer breeders do not 'accept' unsoundness as normal?

Filming - we know the reason it was filmed. But as I continue to say, if it wasn't there it couldn't have been filmed. Let's face it, it was pretty bad.  I hope you're right and we do see less of it, but I wonder. Again, like the rest of what is happening in the breed, we will just have to wait and see.

I know you (and one or two others) tell us they have the interests of the breed at heart... but I do wonder. You're enjoying it all too much and it shows imo.
Enjoying it too much....yes, I enjoy a good debate, I think it is a healthy thing - and yes, I really really do want to see an anatomically correct and healthy GSD. I can't help it if you don't believe me.

displays a real lack of knowledge about animals in general.
You have no idea how wide of the mark you are on that one. In a totally separate context to a dog, it was a good enough analogy to illustrate when I would find something 'abnormal'  a health issue.

Do you know Missbeeb, I share your weariness. We all think we are the voice of reason, but sometimes it just gets too hard. I would not ever want to be a breeder, even with the knowledge I have. So all I can do is try and influence through debate and opinion, those who can actually influence the direction the breed takes. But you're right, it is tiring and I too grow weary.

. The only people breeding bad dogs are BYB who want to make a few extra bucks - they will breed anything.