Things that make you go Hmmmmmmmmmm - Page 3

get a real dog it was a dutch couple living in belgium breeding GSD under the name haus antwerpa the woman started breeding malinois under the name kukays , maybe a few early litters were registered under haus antwerpa all three varieeties are registered in holland as belgium shepherd with a M or T or G behind it to state the variety the terv. never were gret as workingdogs , the groenendael were , when the belium ringsport was founded in 1913 by the Kennel Club Belge it was ruled by groenendael as soon as the police started to use dogs , all longcoatbreeds were thrown out because they had extra work to upkeep the coats , the shortcoats didnt , basically thats one of the biggest reasons the workingcariers of longcoatbreeds(terv/groenend/bouvier) were cut short NVBK is a non,official registration not recognized by FCI , however belgium has an open studbook , so basically in every breed , non pedigreedogs can get back in the FCI recognized saint hubert registrations in belgium is a chapter on itself I wrote some short articles about it for a website , you can find them on www.bouvierstuddogs.com under articles / registrations and separations KNPV is basically nothing more than a police organization with a training program , to get dogs ready for the police they dont care about looks or registrations The bloedlijnen site is a private site ,not in any way connected to the KNPV

Duke, It appears we are on the same page here just different semantics. You have brought some things forward that spark my interest and caused me to look further. I believe what you are saying and I appreciate the info. I have learned something. So haus Antwerpa Malinios are Kukay's? Well this causes me to further believe my theory. The Antwerpa and Kukay's kennels are a Dutch couple. Well we should all know by now the Dutch have no problem cross-breeding. Which brings me to Kukay's Quatro: http://www.bloedlijnen.nl/netscape/form_stamboom.php?ID=998 It has been a long debate among Malinios people if Quatro's real sire was Elgos. People have very firm beliefs on both sides. Looking at Quato's pedigree, you see Arco on the bottom, so the Antwerpa breeders are familiar with this dog and used his lines in their Malinios? Interesting. For me this is both interesting and facinating. I get hooked on this stuff. Now I wonder if Bart Bellon's dog Joerie came from the Antwerpa/Kukay kennel? As for the bloedlijnen site, would you say it is pretty accurate? To me there is little doubt now that Antwerpa GSD's have Malinios in them.

PS.... Have not had time to read the article, but be sure I will :)

Those Antverpa dogs are crap! Freakin' Malinois in em, how disgusting!!!

Junk I tell ya, any dog with a drop of Mal/Dutchie blood is JUNK!

I agree with your thoughts I too have people tell me they seen it first hand in Belgium and Holland. My first working dog was a xmalinois. The Dutch cross Pitbulls and Great Danes into the Malinois breed. You could definitely see it in the xMal I had. The KNPV program is for police work. Most time they title the dog and sell it to a PD or another breeder. Many people view the Malinois as a mix breed, papers or not. You would think the best way to stop the false papers would be DNA testing. As far as the GSD goes. I have not been involved in the breed long enough. However I believe that in Germany litters are inspected by breed wardens. Now I'm sure there are ways around everything so who knows. I have heard from some old timer SchH folk that the West Germans say the Czech's breed Mals into their breedings. It all comes down to how well you trust the breeder and how well you know the breed.

GARD - thanks for the clarification - I hadnt ealized the FCI had seperated the four breeds as well...I thought they were still varieties in Europe. Thats a pity - I like the idea of varieties or interbreeding - especially in working breeds...lol...but I think that is the horseman in me. ~Cate

Cate, I may stand corrected. I went to the FCI websight and they appear to show them as one breed with 4 varieties but the varieties are judged separate. To me that is the same thing. I don't know what the FCI says about interbreeding. I had the understanding that it is different in individual countries, but I don't see how that could be if they are all governed by the FCI. I look at them as all the same breed. Call them by whatever name the coat dictates. I think it's the same with the majority of Belgian Shepherd people. PS Glad to hear you are not snowballed by the "purebred" thing. Cross-breeding occures in all the shepherd breeds despite what some may say. It sounds like you are around some experienced and knowlegable people. :)

It's been said Asko von der Lutter had Malinois in him. Fact or fiction? Hearsay! I don't get the point of having a elaborate discussion on unproven myths.

Hello....he is trying to prove the myth!