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by Sue B on 01 February 2011 - 11:02
Doppelganger, some breeders are already doing this themselves, either by having their Microchip Identifiable, pet pass-ported dogs HD,ED and DNA tested in Germany OR via the scheme set up by the WUSV member club the GSD League who liaise with the SV on your behalf by submitting your samples to Germany. As David says, both parents already in their database to get the result DNA Proven, which of course would be a problem for those dogs with full British breeding and/or with only one or no parents tested but then they have to start somewhere.
When a scheme linked to worldwide GSD DNA database is already available, as much as I agree with David that I would love to see a scheme developed here in the UK, when linking up with the SV scheme is readily available via the League, I do not necessarily see it as a major priority at this time. There are so many more things that we need first that we do not currently have access to.
David, In order to answer the question raised by Nigel Holmes, did you get a reply to your email to Reinhard Meyer re compatibility of the AHT and SV DNA Parentage Tests (ISAG number etc) ? What do you know is needed to get the scheme on the ground here? As you say you have already done the research, maybe you could organise the set up of it here, what better person than the one who already knows all about it and what it entail? Go for it!!! I am certain you and it (the scheme) would get the support needed from the genuine breeders, owners, exhibitors.
Best Regards
Sue
by Mackenzie on 01 February 2011 - 11:02
Mackenzie
by Sue B on 01 February 2011 - 12:02
Regards
Sue b
by Mackenzie on 02 February 2011 - 08:02
If the UK are trying to achieve so many things at this moment in time then perhaps it is time to review the priority list and change the running order. In many cases when an agenda is so full nothing much is really achieved and some things are just pushed aside. This topic, for example, has really not attracted a great deal of attention or comment. How can this topic be just pushed aside?
Mackenzie
by Abby Normal on 02 February 2011 - 10:02
getting the BC to do this would be like pulling teeth
Can you share and tell us what the other priorities are at the moment?
I agree that the UK should have it’s own system, for the reasons stated by Videx (below)
The SV will have to carefully examine if and how they can deal with the British bred GSD with British pedigrees and with British Kennel Club registered names. That is why it would be useful to ask if it was possible for them to help establish a British Scheme using their SV method and system.
I see you suggest that Videx start up a scheme. I don’t know if you were being serious, but if you were, surely that is just abdicating responsibility? Isn’t this this is what the BC are there for? I believe that all breed clubs/councils are there to drive change and improvements in their respective breeds. We constantly complain that the KC will never implement schemes that would be beneficial, but in this case it seems the BC is doing the same. Wasn’t this one of the primary reasons that the GSD-UK partnership was formed – to take the breed forward and implement action where the KC was failing?
Marge – it is hardly just ‘an idea’, when it has been identified as paramount to the future of the breed! It is not passing the buck, that is what breed clubs/councils are supposed to be for IMO. If a lot of groundwork was done by Videx and passed to the BC, one has to wonder why, in 2 years nothing has come of it.
There are so many more things that we need first that we do not currently have access to.
What exactly are the many more things? I think Mackenzie may be right. The more 'things' there are to do, the less (if anything at all) gets done.
by Sue B on 02 February 2011 - 11:02
Disagree all you like thats fine, I have no problem with that but the fact remains
that UNLESS it becomes the law of the land or the KENNEL CLUB make it MANDATORY,
no more breeders will take it up than those already prepared to do so and at the risk of
repeating myself, for those who obviously didn't see the point or the significance of it in the
first place, THE GSDL ALREADY HAVE A SCHEME THAT GIVES UK BREEDERS (those who
want to and are prepared to do it), ACCESS TO THE SV DNA PARENTAGE SCHEME.
So I repeat, we already have access to Worldwide DNA parent testing if we want to use it and
as much as it will be great if someone would create the same in the UK, there are other things
in the UK that we don't yet have controlled access to which IMO are far more important to have
in place before ANY GSD parentage DNA scheme in the UK (unless set up, adopted and
made mandatory by the KC prior to being bred from), can be used successfully.
Good Grief Mackenzie, the KC don't even make Identification Mandatory yet, what use a DNA test
be done from an UNIDENTIFIED , KC REGISTERED DOG?
Its OK having the imagination to see the bigger picture, but 'seeing and talking about it will never create the bigger picture only the 'doing' will and that takes time and money along with the people with the willingness to create it by the FREE giving of their time and money. Just as in the saying "ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS" remember 'ROME WASN'T BUILT IN A DAY'.
Regards
Sue
by Videx on 02 February 2011 - 11:02
HOW DIFFICULT IS THAT ??????????
The GSDL/WUSV Regional Events and our British Sieger "REQUIRE" a GSD Breed Survey for the Adult Classes.
Why haven't the GSD League insisted that the SV DNA Parentage Test is therefore included in the GSD Breed Survey REQUIREMENTS??
If the Breed Council, FAILS to include the SV DNA Parentage Test into our GSD Breed Survey, then WHY don't the GSD League introduce their very own GSD Breed Survey? After all the GSD Breed Survey is at the very heart of the GSDL/WUSV Regional Events and the British Sieger.
Our GSD Breed Survey does NOT require changes in the LAW or any agreement with the Kennel Club, so one must ask the question, ARE THERE ANY PLANS (MINUTED) TO INTRODUCE THE SV DNA PARENTAGE TEST INTO THE BREED SURVEY?
by Sue B on 02 February 2011 - 11:02
The breed can well do without more barricades of resistance.Kindest Regards
Sue
by Mackenzie on 02 February 2011 - 11:02
I was aware already of the points that you have set out.
Historically, the position of the KC is that they let people develop a scheme and then, when they see the benefits of the scheme, they will eventually adopt it and promote it as their idea. We are fully aware that any DNA scheme will not become mandatory immediately just because we introduce such a scheme. The fact that there is access to the SV scheme still leaves breeders with a gap in information, for example, UK bred dogs bred from German bloodlines which may be a few generations back in the bloodline, or, animals imported from a country which has no such scheme. UK breeders need a scheme that will take in as much DNA information as they can get about UK breeding. Not everyone can go to Germany and import current bloodlines.
Can you please detail the things to which there is no controlled access and, in your opinion, far more important to have in place before a DNA scheme. This will allow the readers to assess whether you are right or wrong in these assumptions and whether priorities need reviewing.
Every KC registered dog has a name and a sire and dam with an owner, or, breeders name and address which is therefore of some use. Unidentified dogs will always be around as they have done in the past but will not form a major part of the breeding pool. If necessary they can be investigated as and when they arise.
The whole of the last paragraph of your post is quite true and applies just as much to a DNA scheme as any other scheme. It also comes down to focus and priority. A DNA scheme is the foundation to the future and supported by you in your post dated 1st February in response to my post of the same date.
Mackenzie
by Member on 02 February 2011 - 12:02
Hello All, regarding this debate on DNA testing which is advertised on the GSD League web site with a telephone number for contact and information, surely if not too expensive then this would be a solution for those who believe we should be testing now. I would like to see a compatible DNA test which fits with the SV scheme but this would have to be set up, organized and managed which we are not too good at in the UK. Maybe more details should be published for those who want to use the SV DNA testing to encourage people to use it. Unless compatible with just one set up in the UK the recording of the data could be a problem in relation to Surveys as ideally we would like only one system. As far as DNA for Surveys is concerned , just knowing the dog has taken a DNA test but not knowing about the scheme to be used in the future could be a waste of money , we should find out more about either one compatible scheme, ie same as the SV or just have one based in the UK ( I am talking about Parentage DNA) To add any DNA test to the Surveys on the Data Base is not a problem past and present . And as stated by David in a previous post a lot of work has gone into the Survey Data Base of which every survey taken in the UK since the start of the scheme is on record. I was also given all the files and information by Dr Malcolm Willis for the Hip Data which he produced from it`s introduction but unfortunately due to his health problems over the past few years there was too greater gap in his last recorded data and the data required to bring it up to date. The Data is safe if ever required. Ideas on the way forward are good but better taken up by an organisation,with controlled Data. Identification and compulsory DNA is a must for the future , it`s the last piece in the jig saw and it`s down to us to make it happen. John Ward
John Ward
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