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by Hundmutter on 31 March 2016 - 07:03
"Dunno if it translates to GSDs..." - It does, and it doesn't.
I agree with you that breeding a working (line) dog to another
working (line) example, of any or no breed, doesn't get you
an automatic "working dog". Environment, circumstances,
training all contribute to whether an individual dog is a success
when raised to BE a working dog.
But please don't get too seduced by the American definitions;
in Europe there is STILL less distinction (both in the GSD breed
and in the minds of breeders/trainers !) between "working" and
"non-Working" lines (inc. Show, Sports, and companion dogs).
So when you talk about Karl Fuller "crossing with Showdogs"
you are not really on the money. Fuller bred GSDs, in their
country of origin, under SV regulations for breeding GSDs.
His kennel was rightly famed for producing good Herding dogs;
but he didn't ever run an operation totally free of 'showlines' as
the GERMANS think of 'showline'.
I agree with you that breeding a working (line) dog to another
working (line) example, of any or no breed, doesn't get you
an automatic "working dog". Environment, circumstances,
training all contribute to whether an individual dog is a success
when raised to BE a working dog.
But please don't get too seduced by the American definitions;
in Europe there is STILL less distinction (both in the GSD breed
and in the minds of breeders/trainers !) between "working" and
"non-Working" lines (inc. Show, Sports, and companion dogs).
So when you talk about Karl Fuller "crossing with Showdogs"
you are not really on the money. Fuller bred GSDs, in their
country of origin, under SV regulations for breeding GSDs.
His kennel was rightly famed for producing good Herding dogs;
but he didn't ever run an operation totally free of 'showlines' as
the GERMANS think of 'showline'.
by gsdstudent on 31 March 2016 - 18:03
Karl Fuller bred GSDs before [ and after] there was such a thing as two lines, work and show. At some point in time he bred only within the show lines. A title of HGH does not designate a blood line the same way that an IPO or SchH title is behind every working line sire and dam or show line sire and dam. It is a MUST in Germany to title breed stock. I would argue that the ''simple test'' is for every breeder to be involved with the breed deeper than just inspecting the paper work. Know the dogs you will be using in your blood lines by watching and touching, and training them.
by Hundmutter on 31 March 2016 - 20:03
Influence of (German origin) dogs achieving HGH on later
breeding: Just about every Show bred dog I've ever
handled in the UK (and some of the working ones) had at
least one HGH dog somewhere in its past five generations
of pedigree, often from Herr Fuller's breeding. Just as they
all had a good number of SchH qualified dogs in there.
[ And hip scored dogs. ]
UK breeders always admired Kirshental stock. They were
known to potentially bring the original working capability
into our lines, if used carefully, because Fuller had deliberately
preserved it.
Sadly not all dogs are bred that way. Even in the UK.
breeding: Just about every Show bred dog I've ever
handled in the UK (and some of the working ones) had at
least one HGH dog somewhere in its past five generations
of pedigree, often from Herr Fuller's breeding. Just as they
all had a good number of SchH qualified dogs in there.
[ And hip scored dogs. ]
UK breeders always admired Kirshental stock. They were
known to potentially bring the original working capability
into our lines, if used carefully, because Fuller had deliberately
preserved it.
Sadly not all dogs are bred that way. Even in the UK.
by Alamance on 01 April 2016 - 21:04
Bump.
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