BVA Elbow scoring? - Page 2

Buzz,where on earth in my reply 2 Steve have i slandered you as a breeder?I didnt even refer to this advertised litter,nor did i try to dissuade the OP.from going on these websites because i know that NOT all breeders on their are dishonest,or wot i class as joe public breeders,as in fact i have seen many german type show breeders advertising on their.I havent been on that website recently but i recognised both affixes,(well know gsd show breeders of the german type) n know that the owners of these affixes DO health screen.However joe public could have bought both animals n be breeding from them????Is this the case????In fact i have a good idea who owns the said male(not 100%tho.).We are only advising the OP.of the best way to buy a healthy good quality gsd puppy from a reputable breeder.Tbh.u should not have deleted the op.comment on your website but left a message of explaination coz i,m in agreement with the OP/Hundmutter/Abbynormal that by deleting said comment,u opened yourself up for suspicion.Carole Spelman,Rheinmeister GSDS.

Stay well clear.

There are better dogs out there..

As for using a stud with a 0.3 elbow score...why? Taking accident? Really? Who can be sure. Ununited anconeal process, more like. 

People need to accept that their dogs have faults instead of trying to blind with science.

 

I once bought in a male gsd(1987) who had a hip score of 3-45(2 sisters scored 3-3).I informed the breeder,no hassle from me btw.i accepted it as dog breeding throws up the unexpected n its no guarantee ,even with 0-0 scores that all pups will be HD clear,breeders can only do their best.I did in fact phone up Dr.Malcolm Willis ,who advised that because of the difference in the score of each hip n the fact that 2 siblings scored 3-3 n there wasnt any uneven scores in the 5 generation pedigree of said male that in all probability the high scoring hip was more than likely thru.trauma but he did state that this male SHOULD NOT be used at stud.Ceasar actually lived a long n healthy life n only started getting arthritic at about 10/11 yrs.n unfortunately i lost him ,aged 13 thru a torsion.Carole S.

The male in question is my Stunning dog, Arkashan Infra-Red; Hip score, 7 : 6 Total 13.  Elbow score 3 : 0 Total 3.  Sire, Taboo vom Nordteich, Hips & Elbows A stamp Normal; Dam, Lindanvale Olympia, Hips 5 : 5 Total 10;  Elbows total 0.       For the record, I am & always will be 100% honest.    The male in question suffered an unfortunate accident, resulting in a hairline fracture when just over 4 months old. I saw this happen with my own eye's, as did Linda field. (Chinsam) Linda is the only other person that I've allowed  use my dog, as she was there at the time of the accident.  I wasn't forced into sending the Xrays into the BVA, I did it because I wanted to. The Elbow Joint was perfect & because the fracture was horizontal & not as UAP is seen to be.   So Yes, Dantes, or who-ever you are/want to call yourself; I can be sure. Go & poke your comments at someone else!!  Do not slander me, or anyone I know - & that goes for the rest of the trouble causing lot out there. Keep your comments to yourself.  If you want to email me direct, no problem ...  arkashan@live.co.uk  ... phone ... 07875854481.    Debbie Caton.  'Arkashan' working & show GSD's. 

mmmm seems I may have started quite a squable, the only reason I came on here was  to seek advice, which I gratefully received.
I think the thing to take from this is as a number of commentors said, IF the truth had been put on the advert and the question answered instead of been deleted in the first place

Then this thread would never have happened WOULD it?

Most of the comments seem to be aimed at this rather than any accusations about your dog
after all people claim to be honest etc and then try to hide things with clever adverts WHY wasnt the truth written into the ad? if there was nothing to hide why try and hide it!

also regardless of how your poor dogs injury came about or the results from it where does the kennel club etc stand after all the result in question still indicates it shouldnt be bred from
was the kennel club asked

i think though however the main point is that the advert was designed to be misleading to people like me that probably wouldnt know any better and if you or any body else  dosnt think that is wrong then from reading the replies a few people dont agree with you

at no point has anyone involved said "yep maybe been honest would have been a good idea" which IMO says a lot for the character of those people MORALE COURAGE is something sadly missing in the world today
 

Mr Kirby (if that is what your name really is) this I doubt being as you have not had the decency to answer our phone calls or our e-mails. It appears to us that you are just someone who for whatever reason is determined to try to ruin our reputation as good and honest experienced Breeders. 
Firstly you placed an anonymous message on our guestbook without leaving any means of contacting you when there is an e-mail or phone call option. Our guestbook is not an open forum it is there for our genuine customers to place their comments. 
We have not decieved or attempted to decieve anyone over this litter or indeed any other litters we have had, the advert was a general one advertising the fact that we had puppies. It stated any enquiries for people to call us, this is what you should have done if you where genuinly seeking a puppy. If you had done this you would have been informed of the scores of the parents and also the reason for the 0/3 elbow score on the Stud dog. The same as everyone else who has called. You would also have been  informed that all the puppies are spoken for. As for the Dams elbow score, elbow scoring is not a requirement but a recommendation and has only recently become the norm. As our Bitch is 5yrs old she was not elbow scored when she was hip scored at 12 months of age.. We only started elbow scoring our young stock last year (as stated on our web site). Regarding contacting the KC prior ot this mating, Yes we did, explained the situation and we where told that it would be no  problem in using this dog and would be totally acceptable.
As for your entry on our guestbook, you put it on in the middle of the night and did not leave any contact details as we have previously stated.  We now believe that you have over stepped the mark in your accusations and are bordering on Defamation of Character and Slander. To this note we are endeavouring to discover your whereabouts etc so we can place this matter in the hands of our Solicitor whom we have already consulted regarding this matter. We will be putting no more comments on this post.

My name is Steven Kirby and I can assure you that you don't have my phone number or email address 

as for speaking to your brief I doubt that because any solicitor would have informed you that anything in a written Statement is libel not slander
and that your case would be groundless  based on the comments been based on factual InfOrmation from your own advert 
So now you have also resorted to idle threats

Out of interest for everyone why would someone want to tarnish your reputation on purpose?

 

We do have your mobile number and your e-mail address, these where left on pets for home., you obviously did not realise that these would be forwarded to us. As for the legal side of the matter we will leave that to our Solicitor as and when. He certainly has a different view than you have on the matter therefore we are not going to go in to that on here.
And NO we do not know of any reason why anyone would want to tarnish our reputation. Like we have stated we are honest and open, and have plenty of testimonials to back this up. This is now definitely the last post we will be writing on this matter.
 

Conciliation attempt !
Buzz & Debs  - Steven has told us he is a newby.  He may have been
a bit out of his comfort zone in approaching a GSD breeder 'cold'.  Can
you tell us it is completely obvious on your Website that questions
can only be answered if the prospective buyer leaves an email addy or
tel no ?  If not, could you not have written up a reply on your guest book
to his query ?  Or at least said:  "pls leave  contact details & we'll get
back to you" ?  Just trying to put myself in his position, and how I would
feel in such circs;  sure you can do that too if you try.  There used to be
a saying "The customer is always right" - which meant that, even if you
THOUGHT a buyer was a damn fool or a nuisance, for the sake of your
own public image you didn't let that show, but instead made an effort to
answer fully and politely.  Buzz you had a further chance to do that with
your first posting here, even if you had thought the way to deal with the
question on your guestbook was to erase it.  But you came in 'guns
blazing' instead, talking 'bout 'slander'.  Why ?

Debs,

Your aggression is unwarranted. Perhaps I struck a nerve?