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by Gustav on 30 January 2013 - 23:01
A lot of police depts. still have the straight wall with a platform on the other side so dogs don't get hurt....you be surprised how many dogs today won't go up it because it is too challenging, others are built to bulky, dogs built more like Mals and Dutchies in general structure do much better. Softer temperament dogs don't like to attempt it either, sure some GS do it but let's not get it twisted.
by Abby Normal on 31 January 2013 - 12:01
Susie, I may well have it wrong, but it is interesting to me that the last use of the scale coincides with a time when the GSD was built differently. I have no intention of starting the age old debate, just my observation FWIW. I can quite see that injuries could be an issue and TBH, no way would I want any dog to sustain injuries, but as Gustav says, there are ways of challenging the dog and preventing injury by having a platform, or even stepped platforms on the drop side, which is mainly where injury would occur. The scale was the most obvious example, but there were many other examples of extraordinary athleticism in that film, so I wouldn't get particularly hung up on the wall (pardon the pun). If we are totally honest can we see GSD with these capabilities? I got the impression that this was also probably a moderately local club level too - though obviously I don't know for sure. What worries me most is that I look at that and find the ability of those dogs extraordinary.
And my question still stands...better how?
SupaK - Isn't it a brilliant bite suit LOL! There is so much to see in the film, it is wonderful.
And my question still stands...better how?
SupaK - Isn't it a brilliant bite suit LOL! There is so much to see in the film, it is wonderful.
by susie on 31 January 2013 - 19:01
"That shepherd became better" was the answer to Eddy´s negative questions about the "modern" German Shepherd.
During the 30s the German Shepherd was a VERY young breed. A lot of the dogs were far away from Stephanitz´ standard, simply because he started this breed with a lot of different dogs coming out of different areas in Germany. Seize, color, weight, teeth, health (!), behavior,...
I really didn´t want to show how excellent working dogs there were during the 30s....
It´s like comparing an old car out of the 30s with a modern sports wagon.
Did you really take a look at the obedience and the bitework? Compare it to a good SchH1 dog on club niveau.
This video clip shows the very beginning of SchH work, and that´s the interesting part about it.
The "jumping dogs" are the very beginning of today´s agility, and people even didn´t know that there would be a sport called "agility" decades later.
My grandfather used to train German Shepherds during this time, and there were some good dogs, and a lot of mediocre and sick dogs.
He visited the clubs till 1975, died in 1978, and he was amazed about the progress in this/his sport and breed.
The time of the scale ended when people started to know about HD and started to x-ray their dogs on a regular level.
Formerly a very high percentage of dogs had to quit at around 5 years of age. and up to the early seventies only some people used to pay 1000s for a vet, the dogs got euthanized (shot).
The "good old times" weren´t that good at all.
I am not stupid, I know that the German Shepherd breed as a whole became too heavy, and that a lot of dogs aren´t as athletic as SchH people wish they would be ( including me! ).
But - people breed what people want - and there are still VERY GOOD dogs out there
During the 30s the German Shepherd was a VERY young breed. A lot of the dogs were far away from Stephanitz´ standard, simply because he started this breed with a lot of different dogs coming out of different areas in Germany. Seize, color, weight, teeth, health (!), behavior,...
I really didn´t want to show how excellent working dogs there were during the 30s....
It´s like comparing an old car out of the 30s with a modern sports wagon.
Did you really take a look at the obedience and the bitework? Compare it to a good SchH1 dog on club niveau.
This video clip shows the very beginning of SchH work, and that´s the interesting part about it.
The "jumping dogs" are the very beginning of today´s agility, and people even didn´t know that there would be a sport called "agility" decades later.
My grandfather used to train German Shepherds during this time, and there were some good dogs, and a lot of mediocre and sick dogs.
He visited the clubs till 1975, died in 1978, and he was amazed about the progress in this/his sport and breed.
The time of the scale ended when people started to know about HD and started to x-ray their dogs on a regular level.
Formerly a very high percentage of dogs had to quit at around 5 years of age. and up to the early seventies only some people used to pay 1000s for a vet, the dogs got euthanized (shot).
The "good old times" weren´t that good at all.
I am not stupid, I know that the German Shepherd breed as a whole became too heavy, and that a lot of dogs aren´t as athletic as SchH people wish they would be ( including me! ).
But - people breed what people want - and there are still VERY GOOD dogs out there
by Abby Normal on 01 February 2013 - 10:02
Susie
Herein lies the problem I think. That the perception that Eddie's question was negative.
Some of the obedience work was not 'tight' that's for sure LOL, and I made the comment that this appeared to be quite a 'local' and consequently 'low level' club, and you state it better, confirming that it was in it's infancy. I am sure that it changed and improved significantly from then through to the seventies, especially on the OB side. You make some very good points, and I defer to you on those because you had someone 'on the ground' at the time it was happening, and what you say makes perfect sense. There will always be good dogs and mediocre dogs - that will never change no matter what period of history we are in. Health has improved - no doubt.
I don't dispute that some aspects of 'the good old days' were not so good, and surgery for something like HD was unheard of even if it could have been afforded. Such purists at the time would not in any case have even considered keeping such a dog. They were indeed very different times. However, as I said, I would never want to see a dog hurt, but the fact of the matter remains, as you say yourself we now have a dog whose shape and size does not lend itself to the same athleticism as we had back then.
So I would dispute that Eddies post was 'negative'. I think it a fair question, and one that routinely crosses my mind. We could still have progress without losing some of the former athleticism. We have not. It is what it is, but my question is what makes you say that 'that shepherd became better' because in the context in which the question was asked, I don't see it. I agree there are still some very good dogs out there, but we sacrificed some function for form.
Herein lies the problem I think. That the perception that Eddie's question was negative.
Some of the obedience work was not 'tight' that's for sure LOL, and I made the comment that this appeared to be quite a 'local' and consequently 'low level' club, and you state it better, confirming that it was in it's infancy. I am sure that it changed and improved significantly from then through to the seventies, especially on the OB side. You make some very good points, and I defer to you on those because you had someone 'on the ground' at the time it was happening, and what you say makes perfect sense. There will always be good dogs and mediocre dogs - that will never change no matter what period of history we are in. Health has improved - no doubt.
I don't dispute that some aspects of 'the good old days' were not so good, and surgery for something like HD was unheard of even if it could have been afforded. Such purists at the time would not in any case have even considered keeping such a dog. They were indeed very different times. However, as I said, I would never want to see a dog hurt, but the fact of the matter remains, as you say yourself we now have a dog whose shape and size does not lend itself to the same athleticism as we had back then.
So I would dispute that Eddies post was 'negative'. I think it a fair question, and one that routinely crosses my mind. We could still have progress without losing some of the former athleticism. We have not. It is what it is, but my question is what makes you say that 'that shepherd became better' because in the context in which the question was asked, I don't see it. I agree there are still some very good dogs out there, but we sacrificed some function for form.
by eddyelevation on 01 February 2013 - 22:02
great posts abby and susie................i just think that the GSD has to be athletic..............it suppose to have that rare combination of power,speed, agility...........
i agree with abby why can't we have that same athleticism with less health problems??
athleticism= unhealthy??
doesnt athleticism usually mean more healthy?? especially an athlete in his performance years??
i agree with abby why can't we have that same athleticism with less health problems??
athleticism= unhealthy??
doesnt athleticism usually mean more healthy?? especially an athlete in his performance years??
by eddyelevation on 01 February 2013 - 22:02
why is it that the people who breed for show and looks are the ones who dictate how the breed should evolve??/
is the GSD not a working breeed?
why aren't the working breeders and enthusiasts directing how the breed should evolove over the years??
is the GSD not a working breeed?
why aren't the working breeders and enthusiasts directing how the breed should evolove over the years??
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