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by Abby Normal on 28 September 2010 - 22:09
so why are so many more willing to have a less than pucker working qualification?
Perhaps because in reality beauty is much more important to some (probably more than less) in showline than working ability, and it is, in effect, the quickest way to tick the required box?
Good for you for bringing it out in the open to discuss. As Mo said though - it's a bit quiet. I'm sure you will soon get a feel for who 'ticks' and who 'titles'.
Perhaps because in reality beauty is much more important to some (probably more than less) in showline than working ability, and it is, in effect, the quickest way to tick the required box?
Good for you for bringing it out in the open to discuss. As Mo said though - it's a bit quiet. I'm sure you will soon get a feel for who 'ticks' and who 'titles'.
by opa on 29 September 2010 - 06:09
Here we go again x-perts from the U.K. Hear say not Fact?
by hutch on 29 September 2010 - 08:09
No, not hearsay, confirmation from a reliable source.
The (near) silence is deafening and perhaps speaks volumes about the frequency of this!
by missbeeb on 29 September 2010 - 09:09
I think the silence may have more to do with the fact that this topic has been "done to death", Shirley. I'd never heard of "midnight trials" before I came on here, but I used to wonder why dogs with SchH qualifications seemed to be incapable of the most basic obedience!
SchH is not for everyone, Ob, WT etc, is not for everyone and to be fair, I think there's a lot of SL peeps that wouldn't know if their dog had been "properly" trained or not! Only the "bitework" gets a look in! When you see WL peeps compete with their dogs, it's VERY different, isn't it?
The SL peeps that "do both" (properly) have my total admiration. (Alyson is one of them). Yes, it's fun but it's also hard work and I find the tracking frustrating, because your dog's not supposed to cast... all this "deep nose" stuff.
I'm gettin' old and it's SO hard to access good training and I need good training! So, maybe I send my dog to Germany because there's nothing and no-one near me to help? The other side of the "silence" is... most people don't even look at PDB anymore; there are too many stalkers just waiting for a bite! Rather sad really, it's become a site for personal vendettas & nit pickers.
Babs
by Alyson R on 29 September 2010 - 09:09
You put it very well, Miss Beeb. There is one additional factor I would like to raise.
Is this Forum the most appropriate arena in which to air Shirley's very valid concerns? I cannot see anything positive coming from this thread - just more anti SL comments from the WL purists (they are fully entitled to their opinion, it just doesn't take us any further forward)
I would like to see this issue raised at the new Regional Union meetings for discussion and the identification of a way forward. We in the UK can do very little about it - is this is a matter for WUSV clubs to raise at WUSV meetings?
We will continue to train our dogs - not merely title them.
Is this Forum the most appropriate arena in which to air Shirley's very valid concerns? I cannot see anything positive coming from this thread - just more anti SL comments from the WL purists (they are fully entitled to their opinion, it just doesn't take us any further forward)
I would like to see this issue raised at the new Regional Union meetings for discussion and the identification of a way forward. We in the UK can do very little about it - is this is a matter for WUSV clubs to raise at WUSV meetings?
We will continue to train our dogs - not merely title them.
by Nellie on 29 September 2010 - 09:09
I have witnessed(german) titled dogs at sch clubs ,come on to the fieds NOT knowing what a blind is, hats of to those who put the time and effort into their dogs, but the GSD is a high income in the mother land and titles sell these animals,
Closed club trials happen often and are not open to public viewing in Germany , Very sad indeed
It would be nice to see the titled animals a club trials here in the UK working high points or low points as long as they are making the grad that is benificial to the over all dog
Alyson is out in all weathers training her dogs for titles i know i have been on the freezing fields with her in the past,
Closed club trials happen often and are not open to public viewing in Germany , Very sad indeed
It would be nice to see the titled animals a club trials here in the UK working high points or low points as long as they are making the grad that is benificial to the over all dog
Alyson is out in all weathers training her dogs for titles i know i have been on the freezing fields with her in the past,
by hutch on 29 September 2010 - 10:09
Good point Alyson - I hope to be at the next regional meeting so perhaps I can raise it there.
I realise that the db is becoming over-run with unnecessary nastiness but I didn't realise the sane ones had abandoned ship for want of real debate. I guess I had better join them lest anyone mistakes me for a trouble-maker!
Misbeeb - I hadn't really followed such threads in the past but see there is an American version running alongside this. If the sv can't keep control of "the industry" then I wonder at the wisdom in jumping on board so rapidly and go back to the belief that having to have working qualifications to complete a breed survey may not be the best route - maybe a more thorough assessment of character is appropriate. It doesn't stop working classes at shows for those who want to work their dogs but if the absolute need for a title is taken away then the deceit may subside?
I realise that the db is becoming over-run with unnecessary nastiness but I didn't realise the sane ones had abandoned ship for want of real debate. I guess I had better join them lest anyone mistakes me for a trouble-maker!
Misbeeb - I hadn't really followed such threads in the past but see there is an American version running alongside this. If the sv can't keep control of "the industry" then I wonder at the wisdom in jumping on board so rapidly and go back to the belief that having to have working qualifications to complete a breed survey may not be the best route - maybe a more thorough assessment of character is appropriate. It doesn't stop working classes at shows for those who want to work their dogs but if the absolute need for a title is taken away then the deceit may subside?
by missbeeb on 29 September 2010 - 10:09
You could be right about the deceit subsiding... but I can't see the SV changing their criteria any time soon.
I really think there are probably quite a lot of peeps in this country who are unaware of the deceit; they don't know that they've paid £2 - 3 thousand for a hooky SchH qualification! Some don't even know that there's more to it than bitework!
GOOD training is vital imo and it's not readily available in all areas, which makes it so time consuming and horrendously expensive... one might easily be forgiven for taking up the option of Germany, even when it's not what you want to do.
I hope someone can come up with some good ideas for our future in this.
by Penny on 29 September 2010 - 11:09
Now for one thought provoking item.
Do you REALLY believe that the Sch.h. title assures one of a good temperament animal? What I am getting at is, I am sure that some dogs are more than capable of doing an incy bit of sleevework, and walking a few steps to heel, and running around a hide - but years ago, there was in the UK a Character Assessment Day. This ran every year.
What an event that was. Every item possible for your dog and you to go through, from stairs, ballons, bicycyles, kids, shouting crowds, walking past tied up dogs and tying your dog up to be walked past - dark corridors whereby a bin bag of cans was thrown down a set of stairs near to you. Friendly approach, unfriendly approach by a person hooded, and then looking "normal". That sorted the weed from the chaf, I can tell you, and you certainly knew at the end of the day whether your dog was a brilliant character that recovered instantly from a little hassle, or whether he collapsed in a heap, or became un-necessarily aggressive and was a bit of a liability. You also knew the dog that could discern between an unfriendly person and whether he would hide behind your legs, or be prepared to go forward for you....
I am sure that we have some Sch.h. titled dogs that wouldnt get past lunch time on the above test day, and yet there was not one bit of sleevework in it. It was something that the owner could practice for each year, by exposing their pups to everyday ife, and making them confident and assured - but you never knew until the day what the tests would be. Now I show my age dont I, but I would love to see that Assessment Day brought back into being, mo
Do you REALLY believe that the Sch.h. title assures one of a good temperament animal? What I am getting at is, I am sure that some dogs are more than capable of doing an incy bit of sleevework, and walking a few steps to heel, and running around a hide - but years ago, there was in the UK a Character Assessment Day. This ran every year.
What an event that was. Every item possible for your dog and you to go through, from stairs, ballons, bicycyles, kids, shouting crowds, walking past tied up dogs and tying your dog up to be walked past - dark corridors whereby a bin bag of cans was thrown down a set of stairs near to you. Friendly approach, unfriendly approach by a person hooded, and then looking "normal". That sorted the weed from the chaf, I can tell you, and you certainly knew at the end of the day whether your dog was a brilliant character that recovered instantly from a little hassle, or whether he collapsed in a heap, or became un-necessarily aggressive and was a bit of a liability. You also knew the dog that could discern between an unfriendly person and whether he would hide behind your legs, or be prepared to go forward for you....
I am sure that we have some Sch.h. titled dogs that wouldnt get past lunch time on the above test day, and yet there was not one bit of sleevework in it. It was something that the owner could practice for each year, by exposing their pups to everyday ife, and making them confident and assured - but you never knew until the day what the tests would be. Now I show my age dont I, but I would love to see that Assessment Day brought back into being, mo
by opa on 29 September 2010 - 12:09
Hutch,Name the many show dogs who have not worked for their sch tital.
Nellie, name the clubs that you say are closed to the public.
Again and Again U.K.gossip.Anyway why are you all moaning you can breed without sch and Körung
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