Schutzhund to Personal Protection - Page 2

Well if you say your dogs have "it" and you have a great trainer/decoy then what is the problem?  They should be able to do it for you no problem.

Not saying there is a problem.  Trying to avoid any problems or pitfalls and looking for advice from those who have transitioned from sport of schutzhund to protection with the same dog.

hunger ".. i read your post .. IMO very very upsetting !! i Am taken back at what i read about the training !!! i won't elaborate here .. but a word for the readers :  BW AWARE ...... and no matter who ever states otherwise ... this is a non-contetable fact : Once you bring the dog down the path of personal protection , it is no longer just a sport dog , no longer just a family companion , you must know the law/ liability risk , must have - 100% reliable voice control ... and THERE IS NEVER ANY GOING BACK .. once the dog is seriuos ... you have CHANGED  the dodog PERMANENTLY ***. it's  for good !! so let you conscience be your guide .. when people come to me for a PP dog /training .. my comment .. first consider a concealed arms permit and a pistol course / and self defense. [ i can teach an 8 year old to take someone out in 2 secs flat , without force .. anyone can be trianed in that respect !!.. and .. dogs don't stop bullets.. where i grew up .. drive by shootings is .. not out of the ordinary ... remeber  .. a dog is not superman .. !!

oh ok gotcha.

Well I say listen to your trainer if you fully believe in them.  B/c get on the internet and someone will disagree with what you are doing and you will either 1..get defensive and not listen or 2...start second guessing your trainer.  If you fully trust him/her and u feel your dog has it then full steam ahead with the program you are going with.

Make sure you are done all sport work/titles before you go into PP b/c you can't go backwards.

I trialed my dog in SchH 3. he did well; lost about 12 points on second outs.. not pretty. he still ended up with 84 points.
Judge told everybody, not a pretty routine but he loved the dog work ethics and determination and never ending drive.

There are rare dogs that can score high in ScH routine and be PPD once you cross a certain line you are giving points away. Not every helper in a club can handle a dog that is very....very driven and pushy. Hot every handler can handle a dog that was taught to think and work by himself. Not every trainer can read a dog well enough to determine the state of mind of the dog.

It takes the trainer, handler and the helper to work on a PPD dog. Scenarios, teach them to succeed, keep it going, teach them that failure or giving up is not an option through success. It is hard work but I like it. I take all my dogs through some civil work even if I plan competing with them. I loose points on the dogs disrespecting the helper a lot...if the helper is a little unconfortable with those dogs in blind (very tight bark and hold, you can pretty much see the lunch down there and feel the spit flying around) the dogs take advantage of the situation.
PPD work is not about ego or whose dog is the bomb.. it is about handling skills, understandig the limitations of the dog and improvement of work through understanding those limitations. I am not that great in precise work I am fully aware of that but I like to do all sorts of things in order to get a well rounded dog that can do A LOT of things even if it means less points.
One day I hope to figure out how to do both at the highest level possible. Lets see how much I can learn from each dog I handle.. It is getting better but heck it is not easy.

So averall train with people who can guide you through the steps and who can teach you how to be the dog's support not an obstacle.

I wanted to add: you also have to understand you own limitations when it comes to handling, unrstandig as what is going on in the dog's head. Every dog deals with stressful or confusing situations differently.
So if there is a need of somebody else to handle a dog for you for the benefit of the dog, you have to be open minded about that, sometimes you can learn by observing others as how it needs to be done.

Well said GSDPack.

ok .. some dog sod make good trasnsitions ..  my Gsd was rainmed i n sch fench ring and then on to pers. protection .. but aside form that .. i want to give on bit of input .. that should not be overlooked .. the sports help .. becasue most sports , unruly dogs , poor socializatiuon skills are OUT .. they never samke it past the sport.. if you go on to PP .. one thing that i did .. is  ... always always make sure your PP dog is approachable by ...children ..any and all children ..  yes .. the suspiscion level , the home alert levels /skills were all there .. but .. the socialization that was a prertequisite for Sch and french ring , kept me and my dpog honest , sort to speak .. they are a great foundation before venturing to pers. protect. ... IMO all children should always be able to approach the dog .. your dog should be approachable for them to pet and say hello !! this i don't think anyone on this board with PP experience will debate ... IMO if you train with someone opposed to this ... then IMo you are going to have a very very very dagerous dog !!and IMO is a very crucial feature that should never be ovelooked !!