The Science of Vaccine Damage - Page 2

I don't think anyone is necessarily advocating not vaccinating dogs at all, Steve, just changing the protocol.  My protocol consists of puppy shots and then one annual series after a year, except for rabies which are required every three years by law.  For years, I had blood drawn and sent to Cornell instead of vaccinating and I never had had a titer come back indicating that the dog needed to be revaccinated so why do it?  You've been fortunate that you've never had a vaccination related problem that you've been aware of but as someone who's lost two dogs to perianal fistulas, I am firmly in the camp against over-vaccinating our companion animals.

how much does the titre testing usually run?

I don't remember exactly but it seems it was more or less the same as the cost to vaccinate.  After several years of titers on several different dogs, I quit doing them as well.

Keith this is very enlightening, I havent heard of anyone else having an antibody titre before vaccinating, I too would be pleased to know how much that would cost from your vet.   Cost isnt the greatest issue, the welfare o the dog is - but it would certainly help to get only the dogs that needed the vaccine included in a programme rather than all across the board, causing overload problems and subsequent issues with health.  

Steve1 - I do scathe vets sometimes, although I am very aware that a good vet is worth his/her weight in gold, and I do have one.   However, that good as gold vet of mine is a font of knowledge, does a good job for me when called upon, and gets paid for the job.    I had an old dog on Metacam for a long time at £68 per month, and when I asked my vet for a scrip to get it off the internet, same drug, same dose for £28 per month - this vet then gave me the medicine for £26.50 per month, with a cursery "its because you are a good customer"  -  well I was a good customer when I was also paying £68 er month  Mo.

There is now apparently a titer kit that is being marketed to vets by Biogal.  Google Canine VacciCheck for more info...

videx - thankyou for this thread ... i had a GSD , without naming he was VA son -at 10 months he exhibited , although could not get official rating , but he exhibited V-rating structure.  went to the vet for anuual vaccs. /heart\eyes , gums etc. everything AOK .. no clincal signs , eating well . moving well ; He got his annual vaccs . within 1 week couldn't get off the ground ... story short : Diagnosis : autoimmune disease , vascular in origin .. all terminal blood supply , e.g testicles , paws , tongue became necrotic , gangrene due to the destruction of the vascular  .. ??? just seemed to much of a coincidence to me . so anyone know of any  stats on vaccines associated with auto  immune dieseases ??

There seems to be a general fallacy amoung dog folks, that veterinarians are "rich" people and are out to only overcharge and get you parted from your money.

I would suggest that you have no idea how a veterinary practice works. Most are hard working, sole practitioners, who have paid back student loans that took them through school. They usually own their own facility, which means they pay a large mortgage. Unlike their human doctor counterparts, they also have to stock their own pharmacy, tremendous overhead there. Many of you sell the vets short. You run to them when you have a big problem that you can't find an answer for, (on the internet)  or you have a bitch in a complicated labor who needs a C-section or some other tragic problem. Of course then you complain about what the vet who saved your dogs life charged you.  You are most likely also the ones out there who "expect" to be given credit, just because you have a sick pet and no money, or translate that "don't want to spend money, I want it for free".


I really think this comes down to a responsibility issue. Individuals need to be responsible for themselves. If they take on other responsibilities, (animals, children, etc) then they must be responsible for them also.
As for the vaccination debate, anyone in an area where serious diseases are present who does not adequately vaccinate puppies imo is at the height of folly.

As for older animals, do whatever protocol you want. Vaccinate, do titers, don't do anything, after all they are your animals, you make the decisions. Just be prepared to deal with the possible consequences. Prior to vaccination for diseases like canine distemper, the disease was prevalent. I can remember as a child, dogs dying of what I now know was distemper. In my adult life, over the past 25 years involvement with veterinary medicine, I have never seen a distemper case. Why would that be? Because of extensive vaccination. Go ahead, stop vaccinating dogs. The diseases will rise again, they are still there, they haven't gone away. Unprotected dogs will contract preventable diseases, they will get sick, and if left untreated by that bad guy "the veterinarian" whom you do have to pay,  they will die.

Immunity from disease attained from previous vaccination is different in individuals. By all means, do titers, we offer them regularly to clients who are concerned about vaccines. I personally was vaccinated in 1986 for Rabies, as a wildlife rehabilitator. I had a titer run every 3 years and did not need a booster until 2001. My buddy who received the same vaccine the same days, needed boosters in 1989 and every subsequent 3 year interval since. don't assume that what may work for one will fit all sizes. Try not to be "penny wise and pound foolish" as the saying goes.

If all of you have the fabulous, much loved dogs that I hear about here, you should revere them and take all measures to ensure their continuing health. That must be taken with the proverbial "grain of salt". You must do as you see fit. Some of you will take your dog to his professional doctor more often than you go to see yours. Some dogs will never see a doctor. Each of us must do as we see fit.

I must admit, it riles me to see veterinarians bashed.  

   





    

JMOPASSO  -- your post is well noted ..BUT ... don't forget : it is a function of also what the vets are presented with themserlves. and not in just  animal medicine .. just look at the meds people take , promoted by companies that physicians RX ,,, then a few years later the general public hears about ALL the difficulties ,[ aside of the usual disclosed effects that come along with any RX ].. the fact of the matter : commercialism has perverted medicine , i think in general this is the case .. the common folks go on the advice of vets and who do the vets get their reccomendations from , what literature and to a degree , what scientific studies and presented  by whom ??  people that present the products often work for the companies that are making them .. I have this problem - i prartice medicine !!  whi i am to trust the products that are given seminars are the people dsoing the research and they are on the payrolls of these companies !!.... and i don't write this haphazardly ... for i have to contend with this myslef , practicing medicine !~! yes in general better to vaccine , maybe titer . but ... let's always evaluate and revisit what we do !!! case in point ; years ago - in my youth .. kids were given a baby aspirin .. then years later - Oh aspirin is associated with Reye's syndrome .. give children dose motrin instead . now we see the rampant ... and i mean rampant  health affects in the GSD , part in due to genetics but then again there may be a contributing vaccinating factor. . and i think the genetics have affected thre IMMUNE systems of the GSD , but then again IMO , if that is true , the medicating of the GSD had to be accomodated / researched in that light . what i will share is: years ago we had a regime for vaccianting pups ... i have a new pup and anothjer on the way .. I with respect discussed this issue with my vet .. under his current theory .. our vaccianting program will not start aswe did  in years prior . the reason being amoungst us both .. vaccinating the pups before the immune system starts to at least mature may be causing more difficulties - and on that idea makes no more sense to us bothj. .. we will wait a few more weeks [ not months] than prior years befor we start vaccinating .NOTE:  A disclaimer : i am not advocating what i am going to do ,just simply sharing what i will be doing in acccordance with my vet .