civil showlines for pp work - Page 2

yeah no one is talking about american showlines  just german showlines


there are 3 main types

working line gsd

German working line gsd

american gsd

Yes, with out a doubt the breed is split and fractured into more than two different categories.  The dogs do not resemble each other in looks, working ability or temperament. 

Slam/Trouble - Thank you both- I think I understand it now.

There is a lot of controversy on this subject, thanks for explaining it without being critical to my questions.

Kim

To show my appreciation- I'm sending my wifes Multi Winning  CKC Champion/PPD (in training dual purpose) Std. Poodle to work with you.

My GSD's insist on this, LOL

www.youtube.com/user/canczechdogs


Kim

hello PL, until a couple of years ago, I had only had Am. s/l. so I'm still trying to sort some of this out also.

What I have come to the conclusion is that the breeding priorities for the S/L are type, gait first and the ability to place well in the ring. In both Germany and the U.S., I have seen what I consider dogs of very good and very poor character in the s/l.

from joining a club, attempting to learn to train Sch. and seeing quite a few dogs, I have come to the conclusion that w/l are bred for the most part to excel at points scoring in a game. I have seen what I consider very good and very poor character in w/l bred dogs.

I have also come to the conclusion that some people breed them to do work, such as PSD, SAR, military, etc. Also that other folks test and accept or reject the dog on it's own merit and never look at pedigrees.

Rik

Rik -Thanks for commenting, the thing I am trying to figure out (I know nothing about show/conformation)

Some of our dogs (according to CKC/AKC Standards) are over sized (not within breed standards) and (rarely) some that are undersized (not within breed standards).

The Standards demand certain height/weight/ color/ etc. and yet still demand that the GSD is (at least) capable of performing what they were bred for; Herding/PPD/PSD/Sch/ etc.

Tony and I are of the opinion that;

1- if the dog fits the Basic Standards of a GSD 
2- if the dog performs/or is capable of performing the basic Standards of a GSD
3- if the dog is genetically sound (standards/OFA/etc)

Then, the dog is a quality GSD. I don't see where Show Line/Working Line E. Germ/W. Germ/Czech comes in to play.

You either have a Quality Bred GSD, that looks like it is supposed to look, and can perform (does not have to be a Superstar) what it should be able to perform or you have a ????


JMO


Kim

Yes Kim:  that is pretty much it in a nutshell.  Everyone wants to separate show/work lines;  it's probably not going to happen.  A german shepherd should be able to perform ANY  task asked or trained to perform;  whether it be military, police force, service as in mobility of just plain ppd/Sch.  American showing is strictly another sport and not all can perform; and do not want to perform or have the temperament for it to perform.   I feel the American show lines have screwed up the structure;   hopefully they are now trying to correct it.  It will take years but I hope it will be done for the breeds sake.  The separation of these jobs has also screwed up  the breed.  Best of luck  Nan

A little ditty concerning temperament:  If people keep producing these hard/agressive/bad boy attitudes on the working or show line dogs, we will have dogs which the general public will not be able to work with;  not able to train as they are too focused on hardness with a bad attitude;  and that is not what the general population needs;  that will ruin the GSD breed.  They are SUPPOSED to be versitile; intelligent and protective by nature;  that does not mean hard/agressive attitudes that cannot be trained for the public or family companions.  JMO  Nan

Only a very small percentage of the dogs bred have serious jobs that require hardness and aggression;  generally, the breeds needs to stay neutral so anyone can train, work and serve the general public.

i consider german showlines real GSDs i dont  consider the american shepherds real ones i think they should get another name and be called "american shepherds"  they should be a seperate breed JMO

their temperment seems to be like a standard poodle well the ones i met were

rather than considering an am shepherd there are better dogs out there with less health issues like standard poodles, labs, goldens etc.. The excessive angulation of american shepherds is upsetting. JMO

what is more upsetting is the amount of BYB breeding american shepherds for fun that end up in pounds :( 

my frist shep was american shep i did not know back then anything

but i have seen lots of nice good german showlines i would own or like to own