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by BlackthornGSD on 19 May 2010 - 18:05
Daryl,
You ever met Rokanhaus's foundation stud, Hawk v Eichenluft? He's got a very strong civil side. I'm sure it's not in all of the puppies, but depending on the breeding and the parents, it's not unlikely to find a dog from Eichenluft or Rokanhaus breeding with strong civil protection. Eagle was more of a prey dog, despite his DDR and working k9 dad, but not all of the bitches he was bred to were the same--such as Cora v Granit Rose and a Stormfront's Brawnson daughter.
I don't have any of their dogs, have just seen them grow up and train through several generations.
You ever met Rokanhaus's foundation stud, Hawk v Eichenluft? He's got a very strong civil side. I'm sure it's not in all of the puppies, but depending on the breeding and the parents, it's not unlikely to find a dog from Eichenluft or Rokanhaus breeding with strong civil protection. Eagle was more of a prey dog, despite his DDR and working k9 dad, but not all of the bitches he was bred to were the same--such as Cora v Granit Rose and a Stormfront's Brawnson daughter.
I don't have any of their dogs, have just seen them grow up and train through several generations.
by darylehret on 20 May 2010 - 01:05
I recall Hawk, very nice looking dog, but I haven't seen in his videos what I would consider a strong civil side. Perhaps the training 'cleaned him up', or an off-field exercise would help demonstrate. If I had ever met Hawk, there's a possibility I might agree, though I'll remain skeptical. I suppose the term is all relative to our personal experience. For example, we so often hear of "high drive" dogs, who in fact are moderate drive at best.
by GSDPACK on 20 May 2010 - 02:05
Thank you. I thought so but I rather ask than guess.
I have no experience with Eichenluft dogs so I can't comment on them.
Pack
I have no experience with Eichenluft dogs so I can't comment on them.
Pack
by darylehret on 20 May 2010 - 02:05
I think that very civil and very biddable can be two characteristics that are fairly difficult to find in combination with each other.
by robin5495 on 20 May 2010 - 17:05
My own dogs have a suitable amount of aggression. Riot and I would still be training if there was training available within a reasonable distance. As it is we still do tracking and obedience.
There are dog I could name who DO possess civil obedience that I have seen with my own eye. I have seen them work protection. I assure you they are not lacking in their ability.
Robin
Riot v Eichenluft
Warlock v Eichenluft
Queen Vashti v Monopteros
There are dog I could name who DO possess civil obedience that I have seen with my own eye. I have seen them work protection. I assure you they are not lacking in their ability.
Robin
Riot v Eichenluft
Warlock v Eichenluft
Queen Vashti v Monopteros
by Adi Ibrahimbegovic on 20 May 2010 - 18:05
To the OP, look at Inox Haus Ming, for the traits you are describing. He is in The Netherlands... For the HGH dogs, there are others who can help you better, that is a topic I have only low to low-moderate interest in, so I cannot offer any good advice, but there are people out there who can and whose interest in it is all out.
Best of luck.
Best of luck.
by sueincc on 28 May 2010 - 03:05
Darryl, can you please elaborate for me what it is you think you see or don't see (specifically) in a trial video or helper try out video of any dog that allows you to reach the conclusion that he is not civil? Myself, I just don't see how you can make that determination from a couple of videos, so help me out here, please tell me what part of a trial video tells you whether or not a dog is civil.
by darylehret on 28 May 2010 - 04:05
The schutzhund system by design does not set out to measure or pronounce on display a dog's 'civil aggression'. Not if you want an exemplary performance. But regardless of that, there are lots of telltale cues that help indicate all types of temperament qualities that aren't intended to be displayed on the field, and in all three phases. Not all dogs display the same type or combination of signals, so if you want a cookie cutter answer, I'm unable to offer one. Or are you questioning my ability to read a dog? That's perfectly fine, if you are. As I already said, I could be wrong, but you'd have to directly demonstrate in order for me to believe that particular dog has "VERY STRONG civil protection".
by sueincc on 28 May 2010 - 04:05
Darryl I am asking you to explain the following statment you made:
"I recall Hawk, very nice looking dog, but I haven't seen in his videos what I would consider a strong civil side."
I can only find a couple of videos of the dog, one from a trial and one from helper try outs. I'm just asking what it is you are talking about, what it is that you see or don't in the video, that allows you to reach the conclusion that the dog isn't civil, that's all. I don't know what "cookie cutter" has to do with it, but I guess that's neither here nor there.
"I recall Hawk, very nice looking dog, but I haven't seen in his videos what I would consider a strong civil side."
I can only find a couple of videos of the dog, one from a trial and one from helper try outs. I'm just asking what it is you are talking about, what it is that you see or don't in the video, that allows you to reach the conclusion that the dog isn't civil, that's all. I don't know what "cookie cutter" has to do with it, but I guess that's neither here nor there.
by darylehret on 28 May 2010 - 05:05
Oh, I suppose a "trailing sense of purpose" in the blind is a strong enough indicator, that I can recall from memory anyway. What do you see that would suppose he does?
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