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by troublelinx on 24 January 2010 - 06:01
the person is probably saying that the dog is out of standard size. 100 and over may be normal for a rottie but not a gsd. They may be more prone to joint problems and do not have the longevity of a standard size gsd. My female GSD is full grown at 73 pounds she is a medium size.
For my personal perference 73 is great for a female and i dont like a male to be over 85 max pounds. That is my perference because i work my dog in personal protection on a regular basis. GSD over standard weight can not negotiate tight spaces, this would be important for a police dog. Or jump high fences or scale a 6 foot fence. they tend to get tired quickly and not run as fast or for as long periods of time. A lot of people who see my dog think hse is a small gsd when she is within the standard. Many people think that bigger is better when in fact this is not true for gsd working dog folks. These big out of standard gsd will make a fine pet.
A gsd owner i know has a dog about 80 pounds at 18 months. This dog comes from border patroll lines. When he fills out he may reach 90 95 pounds. He really does not want the dog to be larger than that because the weight can effect working ability. At 95 pounds he will be very slim and sleek. He would actually want the dog at 85 or 90 at a mature weight.
Diffrent people breed for different purposes and although they are all gsd they are all very different temperments. It sounds like on the female side there is some good working line in there. As far as the dad having a white coat tells a lot about the breeding. I hope this does not come across as harsh. I am sure that he is very smart and he seems to have gotten the idea to eliminating far away from his home that is great. This means that he was kept in a clean environment when he was with the breeder. That would be a great start for house breaking
Robert
For my personal perference 73 is great for a female and i dont like a male to be over 85 max pounds. That is my perference because i work my dog in personal protection on a regular basis. GSD over standard weight can not negotiate tight spaces, this would be important for a police dog. Or jump high fences or scale a 6 foot fence. they tend to get tired quickly and not run as fast or for as long periods of time. A lot of people who see my dog think hse is a small gsd when she is within the standard. Many people think that bigger is better when in fact this is not true for gsd working dog folks. These big out of standard gsd will make a fine pet.
A gsd owner i know has a dog about 80 pounds at 18 months. This dog comes from border patroll lines. When he fills out he may reach 90 95 pounds. He really does not want the dog to be larger than that because the weight can effect working ability. At 95 pounds he will be very slim and sleek. He would actually want the dog at 85 or 90 at a mature weight.
Diffrent people breed for different purposes and although they are all gsd they are all very different temperments. It sounds like on the female side there is some good working line in there. As far as the dad having a white coat tells a lot about the breeding. I hope this does not come across as harsh. I am sure that he is very smart and he seems to have gotten the idea to eliminating far away from his home that is great. This means that he was kept in a clean environment when he was with the breeder. That would be a great start for house breaking
Robert
by ashlynsmom on 26 January 2010 - 03:01
Hi Robert. I don't take your post as harsh, I take it as your opinion. I do however, disagree with your opinion. My husband has several friends that have amazing K-9's and a couple of them are larger dogs and still do their job extremely well and are the ones called out the most. In fact, his very good friend (who is quite fond of Xander) has the most amazing, athletic dog and he is about 105. He's 9 years old and still working and doing great. His size has definitely not hindered him. It is definitely a matter of preference. As far as my pups sire having a white coat and that "saying a lot about the breeding" is concerned I disagree again. You don't know his lineage at all because I've not had a chance to post it. Making a judgement based upon coat color seems unfair. Again, coat color is a preference. I've known several white GSD and they were all healthy, friendly, intelligent, loyal....everything a GSD should be. For a long time I actually thought I might want a white GSD of my own. This breeder has people on waiting lists for her puppies and has repeat customers frequently (those who have pups of hers that are five or six and get another pup). Her litters are spoken for well in advance and many pups have gone on to have careers in law enforcement. I feel that she is a great breeder with great dogs (no matter their coat colors) and I think my Xander is amazing and will be an awesome and yes, large dog. So anyway, no, I don't feel that your post was harsh just an opinion that I happen to disagree with. Thanks for putting in your two cents though.
Ashlyn'sMom
Ashlyn'sMom
by Jenni78 on 26 January 2010 - 17:01
That's going to be a pretty poplular opinion (Robert's) when people read of a Tiekerhook-bred female being bred to a "huge" white male. Talk about apples to oranges.
Robert said: GSD over standard weight can not negotiate tight spaces, this would be important for a police dog. Or jump high fences or scale a 6 foot fence. they tend to get tired quickly and not run as fast or for as long periods of time. A lot of people who see my dog think hse is a small gsd when she is within the standard. Many people think that bigger is better when in fact this is not true for gsd working dog folks.
While this is GENERALLY true, and why it's a good idea to stick to the breed standard, I have a 100+lb male who is laughing at this paragraph. Can't "scale" a 6' fence??? He can jump it easily, and can scale at least twice that. Tired quickly? Really? Never seen him sleep, actually, and is impossible to tire out physically; if I want him to chill, mental stimulation/exercise works better. Making him run will take all year before he's tired. He is one of the most agile dogs I have ever met and can do things that typical GSDs cannot do at all- he seems to think he's a malinois.
Anyway....just saying that while "huge' is definitely NOT a good breeding goal (neither isbreeding for a particular color- both result in weakened dogs overall), there are exceptions; some big dogs do just fine! My point is don't aim for big, but if it happens anyway, don't be so quick to dismiss them as useless pets.
Robert said: GSD over standard weight can not negotiate tight spaces, this would be important for a police dog. Or jump high fences or scale a 6 foot fence. they tend to get tired quickly and not run as fast or for as long periods of time. A lot of people who see my dog think hse is a small gsd when she is within the standard. Many people think that bigger is better when in fact this is not true for gsd working dog folks.
While this is GENERALLY true, and why it's a good idea to stick to the breed standard, I have a 100+lb male who is laughing at this paragraph. Can't "scale" a 6' fence??? He can jump it easily, and can scale at least twice that. Tired quickly? Really? Never seen him sleep, actually, and is impossible to tire out physically; if I want him to chill, mental stimulation/exercise works better. Making him run will take all year before he's tired. He is one of the most agile dogs I have ever met and can do things that typical GSDs cannot do at all- he seems to think he's a malinois.
Anyway....just saying that while "huge' is definitely NOT a good breeding goal (neither isbreeding for a particular color- both result in weakened dogs overall), there are exceptions; some big dogs do just fine! My point is don't aim for big, but if it happens anyway, don't be so quick to dismiss them as useless pets.
by troublelinx on 26 January 2010 - 17:01
Ashlynsmom,
On some points i agree with you. Some oversize gsd do fine with their size, if they have good heart. It is difficult to say that all of one type will fit into a certain category. There is always an exception some where. Police gsd usually do not get over 95 pounds. I think we are comming from different vantage points. I am speaking strictly from a working prespective as opposed to a family pet dog perspective. I realize that I am very limited in that way. My opinions are based on the dogs i have seen worked. I have never seen a solid white Gsd with good enough working abilities to warrent breeding for working purposes which is by the way the purpose of the origional gsd. There is always an exception out there. I probably have not seen enough good white working ones.
White GSD There are quite a few lines of dogs German working, German show, American ,East German to name a few. All of which have different charisterics. I do not know of any german east or west or showline that are breed to be white. Thus working ability would not be good. Now there may be somesort of exception i just have not seen it. Even if a good white one was found somewhere ont there it is very doubtful that it would produce well.
I am sure that there are some 105 pound gsd with proper weight to size ratio that are athletic. If you took that same dog and he was within standards he would be even faster, jump height there for hit harder ect ect. Given that the dog had the same heart. I am not dismissing that all 105 pound dogs are not athletes just that they would be much better ten pounds less. The difference of ten pounds is a huge difference on a dog.
Robert
On some points i agree with you. Some oversize gsd do fine with their size, if they have good heart. It is difficult to say that all of one type will fit into a certain category. There is always an exception some where. Police gsd usually do not get over 95 pounds. I think we are comming from different vantage points. I am speaking strictly from a working prespective as opposed to a family pet dog perspective. I realize that I am very limited in that way. My opinions are based on the dogs i have seen worked. I have never seen a solid white Gsd with good enough working abilities to warrent breeding for working purposes which is by the way the purpose of the origional gsd. There is always an exception out there. I probably have not seen enough good white working ones.
White GSD There are quite a few lines of dogs German working, German show, American ,East German to name a few. All of which have different charisterics. I do not know of any german east or west or showline that are breed to be white. Thus working ability would not be good. Now there may be somesort of exception i just have not seen it. Even if a good white one was found somewhere ont there it is very doubtful that it would produce well.
I am sure that there are some 105 pound gsd with proper weight to size ratio that are athletic. If you took that same dog and he was within standards he would be even faster, jump height there for hit harder ect ect. Given that the dog had the same heart. I am not dismissing that all 105 pound dogs are not athletes just that they would be much better ten pounds less. The difference of ten pounds is a huge difference on a dog.
Robert
by charlie319 on 27 January 2010 - 22:01
IMPO, size is important not only for cardiac reasons, but for the wear & tear it implies for their joints & ligaments. The bigger the dog, the more important it becomes to keep him lean. Big is not necesarily bad as long as the dog's musculo-skeletal system is able handle the rigors it will impose upon it. At least in the very long run.
by ashlynsmom on 28 January 2010 - 03:01
I definitely see everyone's points. Please understand though, when I said "HUGE" I didn't mean he was out of breed standard, overweight, or exceptionally tall. He is just not the "lean" type of GSD...he is stocky, broad, and solid. He carries himself in such a way that he makes himself look "tough" and "proud". His presence commands attention. After reading the posts I called my breeder and talked with her because I was a bit upset that I incorrectly described Ekko. Ekko is about 90-95 pounds...so he's big but not over 100 pounds big. He is tall...she said he exceeds the breed standard by about an inch (so I guess that's an imperfection). She does not necessarily breed for color but more for temperment and feels that he is an exceptional sire, especially when paired with Gretchen, even if he is white. Please, understand, we didn't buy Xander with the intent to show him or to work him. My husband thinks it would be cool if Xander could become a good K-9 but we won't really know for another year or so anyway...and, if he isn't, it doesn't matter...we got him to be a happy, healthy member of our family and that's exactly what he is.
As an update, my little man is doing great. Still no accidents. He now knows sit, down, come, and he shakes paw (right and left). He picks things up quite quickly and retains them. He's great with my daughter and she absolutely adores him. He kennels himself at night and his tail is always wagging. One ear is completely up and the other is about half way. Can't wait to get him to the vet for his next round of shots and see how much he weighs. He looks great!
Ashlyn'sMom
As an update, my little man is doing great. Still no accidents. He now knows sit, down, come, and he shakes paw (right and left). He picks things up quite quickly and retains them. He's great with my daughter and she absolutely adores him. He kennels himself at night and his tail is always wagging. One ear is completely up and the other is about half way. Can't wait to get him to the vet for his next round of shots and see how much he weighs. He looks great!
Ashlyn'sMom
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