Dogs bred in America - Page 2

I am a big fan of HOT dogs and commend everyone who takes that on...my question still remains, if you can't title your dog yourself, for whatever reason, why do people automatically send their dogs to Germany? Having rephrased that, a few comments, and a few more questions - "It can also be a selling point to new customers who don't have the knowledge that others have. They may think a dog trained in Germany learns some secret or gathers some special power that makes them smarter than dogs trained here in the states" - I would agree with you there, some people actually use this in their marketing. KYLE - great post - and I would love to see more females compete. People always talk about studs, but the female contributes too, ya know. I also agree that low scores are often handler issues. How many people over here realize that though? In my experience, some of the biggest undoings in this sport over here are the egos that feel the need to trash everyone else. So you have a let's say "home bred" dog (meaning not an import), you go out, trial, and do reasonably well but lose stupid points on handling errors or throw your dog off...and then all you hear about at is "that dog is a POS, look at his scores" Who doesn't want a high score? Ahem. I think that this attitude starts to discourage alot of people who may be up and coming new competitors who CAN actually start taking dogs to regionals and nationals. The sideline critics can be quite vicious! Sadly, sometimes this attitude even exists within one's own club (time for a new club I would say, but that's another issue) But how can we know how alot of these stud dogs and their progeny work unless people are actually out there competing with them? We need better support for people - most desperately for new competitors and new helpers who WANT TO LEARN. Everyone starts somewhere, and the person just learning today might be the person who takes a dog out of your breeding program to the nationals in a few years. The helper that is just learning today could be the helper that will be a handler's greatest asset in a few years. - As far as puppy vs. young dog (let's say a year) - yes, I understand that alot of the people who are gearing for top competition don't want to start with a pup. But there are people out there who LIKE to start with a pup. Is that to say these people have no hope of competing at the regionals and nationals? No. But buying a pup is more risky. SO, I think it's important for breeders to offer clear warranties on things like hips, and then have a track record of honoring them when something goes wrong - one of the keywords being CLEAR. I see alot of contracts that are pretty vague and never get honored because of technicalities. I know dogs bought in Europe usually come with no warranty, but as a way of encouraging people to buy over here, I think breeder support when something like this comes up is important, and doesn't mean that the breeder is 'losing' anything as long as the contract is written fairly. I think another issue is cost. I like Uwe's idea alot because he is not giving away pups and then winding up with owners who have changed their plans, sold the dogs, or whatever. People who want his pups pay what he asks, but then he offers perks for those who do attain what many breeders are hoping for when they give someone a free pup. Another option to attract people would be to offer pups at a reduced price to people who have attained SchH3s or competed at regional or national levels in the past. Molly, since you have obviously had alot of competetive success with your own breedings (and we know you post here), has this boosted the number of experienced people who are wanting your pups? How did you place the pups that are also now having success?

Lots of good ideas and thoughts here on this post. My hat is off to people willing to take a puppy and train them to title. We need more of our trainers to look at the puppy training rather than the older dog out of Europe, most green dogs from Europe at age 1 or 2 have issues is why they are sold. I still think if the american breeders are supported we can supply as good as anyone else can in Europe. This is why we are doing the green-dog program here at my kennel. It is an expensive project to do but we feel worth while to get the dogs in to the hands of the capable american trainers. That way they can see the dog work, the xrays done hip/elbow and as far as price for a top-sport green dog we will be lower than Europe. We need to support each other and USA to promote the sport better in general. A good networking of breeders/trainers is what will work in our country. We all want the same thing better dogs and I would rather travel seven hours to see a dog here than send for one in Europe and have no idea what is coming off that plane, have been that road before and while some have been good the number of bad ones stepping off the plane has the highest percentage from my experience.

I find that one of the hard things is to find a trainer that has the ability to work or train a puppy...so many helpers in the USA are only interested in working the big guys...that's totally wrong in their thinking...It is the Puppies that will give you creditability as a trainer...

Nice topic folks. I raised my dog, Arek vom Bodenthal from a puppy, and competed a few times at the National Schutzhund 3 tournaments, and was able to compete with him at the 1998 WUSV in Boston. I raised Arek's son, Chief vom Patiala, from my own breeding, and competed with him at the Nationals. He got hurt at a young age so that essentially put an end to his working career. Chief's littermate Count also competed at the Nationals. Five of Arek's sons have competed at the Nationals with different handlers. Not only that, Arek was V in the body, KKL1, and had good hips and elbows. Chief and Count are KKL1, have good hips and elbows. I have Chief's sister, Caasha, who has good hips and has praiseworthy pronounced in courage and fighting instinct at the breed survey. Recently, Hal Lymus competed with a dog from my breeding, Eumah vom Patiala, at the North American Championship. Incidentally, all the people who competed at the Nationals with dogs from my breedings were at the major championship for the first time. The more experienced people tend to look abroad, or like working with older dogs, and there is nothing wrong with that either, in my opinion. I do not like giving any financial incentive because I don't think that by itself is going to get someone out of the bed and entice him to go for tracking in the morning. Most of the people who do schutzhund, do it because it is fun, and it is what we like to do, at least I do. Ajay Singh www.ajaysingh.com

LaPorte, In conversations I have had with folks who sent their dogs to Germany for training and titling, I would say the majority stated that it was cheaper in Germany than in the states. On top of that, if the dog sent to Germany was a bitch, then once the titles were obtained, the bitch could be bred with a dog over there, then returned. I gathered from the conversations that it appeared as though the bang for the buck in training was better. Plus there are more "trials" occurring in Germany. I still think a big part of it is the "Mystique" that surrounds a dog trained and titled in the Motherland as compared to the states.

I will never be competing at a national level. So I will answer this more generally and say working home. One of the biggest obstacle in my eyes is communication. Ed

I personally would love to see more trials in the States, More breeders training they're own dogs for trial, shows testament to they're dedication to the breed and to the dogs they breed, rather than puppy mill, hobby breeder, backyard breeder and so on as we are so often refferenced to. I know that I am a very serious, very dedicated breeder with very hard set goals of myself and my dogs. I am working on those goals every single day, and for those of us who do work hard, train, set standards higher, and investigate deeply into pedigrees, well then we are truly an asset to the breed as stewards. Eventually I think more people will start looking more locally to purchase working dogs, we just have to let them know we are here and we are working hard and setting higher standards, we have to in order to compare with the "motherland" stigma that all dogs from germany are better. Don't get me wrong, I know I will never go to Germany to look at dogs I would spend my life savings and 2x's more bringing home more dogs then I could handle, but I admit it and therefore avoid it all together, LOL. Anyway does that mean I would not look here first, NO, In fact I have not yet imported a dog and don't intend to at this time, does that mean I don't beleive in my breeding program, does that mean I don't breed hard solid dogs, Of course not, if that were the case I would be doing a great harm to the breed. We have from 3 litters that we have bred 2 in thereapy work, 4 with K-9 handlers, 6 in sch. training, 1 in AKC Obedience, and 1 preping for SV show ring. I am very proud of this, But I really work hard to find the right buyers for these pups, I have 2 pups from a current litter that are not even being offered to anyone as of yet, because I have to have the right buyers for them. I think that too plays into what we are trying to get accomplished with showing that dogs bred in the states can compare, but only true if we have the right buyers for them. Just my 2 cents, Our website is www.echomeadowshepherds.citymaker.com I would absolutely support a program that would help dogs bred in the states further advance, and be recognized.

I think that those that are capable of being very competitive at a national event want to make the world team w/ what ever dog will get them there. So they will not spend time on a puppy or young dog that they do not feel can win. the gary's, wallace, T. Floyd etc... have been around long enough to know what type of dog they can win w/ and to train anything else is a waste of their time. So i think it leaves breeders looking to have their dogs shown at the top few options. they can either do it themselves, pay a top trainer, put a puppy in the hands of someone training w/ a top trainer, or perhaps and young, up and coming trainer. question?? Has there been a breeder in the us to put several dogs on the USA world team?