SCHH1 (2,3) Kkl 1 - Page 2

you only know the Sch 1 title has been accomplished .. BUT ... anyone  IMO that trains and really grasps what they are doing : when they  train for Sch1 .. you train as though you are preparing for Sch 3 !! the hard part should be the attaining of Sch 1 .. that is the foundation .. the 2 and the 3 are just an exension of the 1. e.g.  how much more difficult is it beyond for the obedience .. lord , you already achieved BH and the 1 .. same with tracking ... i train a sch 3 track even before the 1 . how difficult is it really !! same with protection .. how much more difficult is the 3 .. once you have the dog attacking/ holding/ outing ... gee ...how much more difficulty is there ??  So what if you see in title Sch 1 [2,3].   All foolishness .. i have seen some Sch1 dogs work better than the other sch 2's  that had flaws masked ..  As in life .. don't get flim - flammed by fancy titles.. personally just show me the dog  and the performance

Alphapups comments about training for the 3 when you start training is a good one, if put into practice carefully. And yes, all too often, the way people use parentheses to show some title (supposedly in progress) is nothing but flim-flam and they more often than not have no intention of doing that training. But it sells dogs so people do it, regardless of how disingenuous it may be.

That may be so and i have also seen Dogs that have been pushed too fast crack up, More so in the big trials when every point is earned twice meaning nothing is given away, They cannot take the pressure that the handler expects of them
Two young Dogs i watched from Sept last year they were then Sch1 they worked confidently and really well and i thought taken along steady they would be great prospects in a year or so's time,
 I watched the same two dogs in early Feb they were both then ScH3 which suprised me and both made a right hash of the work the competition was stiff and the Dogs could not cope
Then only a month ago in a Selection Trial i watched the same two young dogs in this trial to go forewords for the WUSV both again were out of there league, They were making mistakes and the owners admitted they had pushed them too fast to get them to ScH3 to go forewords for the WUSV selection trials Now they said they regretted doing it and should have waited a bit longer, But it happens But i fear those Dogs will have to over come a lot to get there confidence back to what it was when they wre at ScH1,
I note that neither of them is entered in the Second Selection Trial towards the WUSV  this coming Sunday, so that speaks for itself,
To me i want to get my Pup now 11 months old in for her BH when her birthday for 15 months arrives which is after August,15th   
She is almost ready now to take it, Then before the year is out ScH1 if she is ready then i have all next year to go for 2 and 3 still she will be hardly fully grown so i will not put too much on to her If i think she is a good prospect,  then next year is a long time and to get two titles is okay, and is giving her time to learn without pushing too hard That in the long run proves nothing It is only the ego of the handler that it proves anything too just to say i got my dog to Sch 3 in that amount of time
Hoewever in the meantime i will be working towards getting her Korclassed in 2011 as well providing her Joints are okay
Steve1

Just to be clear, I am NOT suggesting that preparing a dog for SchH3 tasks in some preliminary fashion when young should involve a lot of pressure. I AM assuming that those who are capable of doing this also know enough to read the signs their dog exhibits and know when to modify what and how they train. I am assuming as well that people know how to train and keep it interesting for the dog. Dogs who are prepared early on for certain tasks or parts of a given task, even as an 8 or 10 week old pup carry that imprinting and it can be very useful later on. One must know what the tasks are all along the path, and also know how to proceed. Of course, there are people who push too hard, or do absolutely the wrong thing in training a given dog to do something. I also believe that dogs, like humans, have limits and can "burn out". Dogs who have accomplished a lot by 3 years old (where the training really was legitimate and not just barely getting to a passing level in some less than rigorous trial) often are trained too often and/or in ways that take away from the dog wanting to do it. Such dogs begin to show the stress but some handlers don't see it, or ignore what they see.

Hodie
The Guys i am talking about are Old hands at the Game very good with Dogs Proven time and time again in the past,
 BUT, as they said they wanted to try for the WUSV Selection but made the common mistake of going too fast now they are regreting it and said so the fault was theres for being too keen and too impatient
 But, It proves one thing you can still make mistakes no matter how long you have been in the game, and No one knows everything we can all learn and will keep doing so
Steve1

I don't mind seeing ( ) if the dog is working on a title, as in, has legs/Qs, especially the big ones like the MACH and RAE where you are earning like ten legs of double Qs before you title..  But that would not apply to SchH since you only earn it once for the title.

steve1 -- yes to your point.. the biggest mistake i comment to beginners is ' doing to much to fast with your dog!!' -- but that comes from several avenues .. just plum lack of  patience  or knowledge , or lack of ability  or crucial _ making the dog .. what it is not !!  However all factors being equal someone who can train  /understand that particular dog .. knows what is the potential . brings it out and thinks ahead. for example .. i train the dumbell after many other exercises... BUT knowing it will have to retrieve .. when do i start tapping into the motivation of the dog for the dumbell ?? at 8 weeks .. so in essence i think to enunciate better.. i TEACH  the dog and in doing so ...it learns[ at it's pace]  in regards to what lies   ahead...

I see a lot of rushing among show lines, especially the bitches, because the SchH1 is just a means to an end (Koerung and V-rating).  Everyone I know that is committed to the SchH3 is going at an appropriate pace and will trial the dog at the various stages (or a few weekends in a row) when the dog is ready or beyond ready.  I think looking ahead to the 3 keeps the bigger picture in one's mind and makes us less likely to take short cuts that will stall progress later.  If all I cared about right now was getting a 1 I could probably whip my dog into shape and have it in a few months but I'm focused on the 3 so I have no idea when I will even trial for the 1.

I am doing the same for Rally which is not nearly as challenging as SchH but it helps keeps things fresh.  My dog just needs to polish one more skill and he can easily do the RE level courses but has not even done a match for RN yet because I want him to be fully mature in the head before ANY type of trial.  When I am really confident in my dog and pleased with the progress, it makes me less likely to rush into trialing.

ScH at club level is not the same as World Championship level difference is as to chalk and Cheese,
Most Judges score accordingly when you are taking the test for say Sch1 they will give and take a little so long as you do the program right but then there overall score says what they think of your performance,
However be it Sch3 when you go for the big trials there is no leeway at all each point will be double earned so to speak the Judges are very critical what i have seen they are Plus in the big Trials or Competitions the handlers know they will not be given anything they do not earn and that is pressure on them as well
I asked several of the Top Boys over here that same thing and they all said Yes, we are a bit nervous to start but after doing it so many times it just goes away and you do it normal ,However just the slightest move wrong from Man Or Dog will cost dearly in points that is the difference to Club and Top Competition ScH
Just the same in racing pigeons, The Club racing is a world apart from International racing , i did ask one Guy in the UK who was a top club racer but was going to try his luck in the All England Nationals, So he entered some 40 pigeons, i said what do you expect to win, He said i at least expect to win the Section an Area of say 80 miles radius that we were both in the same one
So what happened, His first arrival finished in 154th Place Area, He was dumbfounded but i just gave a smile and left it at that
Sorry to bring in some other subject, but just to explain the difference in competition level
Steve1

Liesjers .. you make a point .. a  good GSD .. you can get the Sch 1 tilte quickly .. as a matter of fact [ for novices] in about 90 days !! now folks lets remember something elst here .. the Sxch1 title .. kis not for it'ss own merit .. most often , mostly show line .. it is realy only a stepping stone to get the dog at that point to show !!  so steve 1 makes a pont ..  there is a qualitative difference in the titles .. in show .. they need the dog to minimally perform .. that's it .. scores are really foolishness [ most errors are handler and says nothing about the dog]. how many  gsd DO YOU SEE DOING FRENCH OR BELGIUM RING ?? UNLESS IN FRANCE OR BELGIUM VERY VERY FEW . AND THE REASON .. MANY GSDs  WOULDN'T MAKE THE GRADE !! the entry level surpasses the difficulty compared to a Sch 3 .. so be careful as to what the real meaning of titles are .