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by vonissk on 28 September 2011 - 15:09
Sunsilver, no they-Trommel-are no longer in business. However there is a kennel called Dutch Hill which is built totally on their lines. The grandfather of this girl was Arko of Dutch Hill, and she bought him from there because she really liked those lines. He was a very nice boy, rock solid.
VK, Yes she knows these lines very well. The dogs that are JBJ dogs are her breeding also. And if you click backwards they go way back, As I said 30 yrs. worth. And yes I know it is a lot of linebreeding but if you personally know the dogs and what you are breeding on and what you are breeding for, then it makes a world of difference. It's easy to do nothing but open pedigrees and look at dogs when you have nothing better to do and say oh wow look at that--they must be a terrible person. She truly loves her dogs, she knows genetics backwards and forwards--she makes the standard come alive when she is explaining something.
My girl Mauli that I talk about so much and am so proud of? She is a half sister to this dog--Melody is her mother. Temperament, hips, elbows, intelligence, bred to the standard, looks, conformation--I'll put her against any dog any day. Her dogs are sef thinkers, which tends to get them into trouble LOL so they've gotta be kept busy. And they tend to be one person dogs which can be good and bad. To remind everyone here is my Mauli. And if anyone should want to check out her pedigree, it is Marybecks Mauli Ishto von Issk..jpg)
VK, Yes she knows these lines very well. The dogs that are JBJ dogs are her breeding also. And if you click backwards they go way back, As I said 30 yrs. worth. And yes I know it is a lot of linebreeding but if you personally know the dogs and what you are breeding on and what you are breeding for, then it makes a world of difference. It's easy to do nothing but open pedigrees and look at dogs when you have nothing better to do and say oh wow look at that--they must be a terrible person. She truly loves her dogs, she knows genetics backwards and forwards--she makes the standard come alive when she is explaining something.
My girl Mauli that I talk about so much and am so proud of? She is a half sister to this dog--Melody is her mother. Temperament, hips, elbows, intelligence, bred to the standard, looks, conformation--I'll put her against any dog any day. Her dogs are sef thinkers, which tends to get them into trouble LOL so they've gotta be kept busy. And they tend to be one person dogs which can be good and bad. To remind everyone here is my Mauli. And if anyone should want to check out her pedigree, it is Marybecks Mauli Ishto von Issk.
by Keith Grossman on 28 September 2011 - 15:09
"Regardless if you would linebreed and yes it is linebreeding NOT inbreeding..."
Nope, the 2-2 on Arko is inbreeding.
Nope, the 2-2 on Arko is inbreeding.
by Jenni78 on 28 September 2011 - 15:09
Not my personal taste by a long, long shot, but to each his own so long as the dogs don't suffer for it. It is inbreeding, not linebreeding, when you have a 2-2 though. But, you cannot bring out genes that aren't there, so if all the dogs are healthy, then it's none of our business, I guess.
by vonissk on 28 September 2011 - 15:09
Thasnk you Jenni. I used to think that too-oh all that linebreeding but one day she explained to me the percentages you get--which I've already forgotten-and it made a lot more sense to me that no matter how much you linebreed unless it is on the same dog over and over you only get a drop or two of that blood.
Thank you Keith. I wasn't sure if it was linebreeding or inbreeding. I have been told that the only true inbreeding was brother to sister and all the rest was tight linebreeding-like even mother to son. So I just wasn't sure.
Thank you Keith. I wasn't sure if it was linebreeding or inbreeding. I have been told that the only true inbreeding was brother to sister and all the rest was tight linebreeding-like even mother to son. So I just wasn't sure.
by Blitzen on 28 September 2011 - 15:09
Inbreeding and close linebreeding is widely accepted in many breeds of purebred dogs. Breeders use it to set a specific type or trait in their line. Evidentally the breeder in question has had success with her dogs. Outcrossing generation after generation doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you have something you like and want to try to reproduce it consistently.
by Two Moons on 28 September 2011 - 17:09
What kind of missing info are you talking about Moons? Any of those dogs on there that have no hip ratings if you want to know ask me.
I guess that covers that....lol
Birthdates, registry numbers, ofa ratings, they don't really mean much on a pedigree.
This is not responsible breeding and yes it is inbreeding.
Not that I care mind you, I've seen this before.
Moons.
I guess that covers that....lol
Birthdates, registry numbers, ofa ratings, they don't really mean much on a pedigree.
This is not responsible breeding and yes it is inbreeding.
Not that I care mind you, I've seen this before.
Moons.
by vonissk on 28 September 2011 - 17:09
Because someone doesn't put birthdates and registry #s it makes it irresponsible breeding? I can understand the not having hip ratings on there, but the other..............
Come on Moons just say I don't like that much linebreeding and I would never do it. That's fine it's your preference. But don't drag in trivial stuff like birthdates and AKC #s.
I can tell you this they are AKC and UKC registered. And the reason I said to ask me anything you wanted to know is because I am the one that put that pedigree up. I put up the info I was given to work with. But as I have said before I know what she does and I happen to know the dogs
Anyone can say anything they like but if you don't know the person or the dogs and you have nothing better to do than look up pedigrees and bash the ones that don't fit in with your program, I'd say you have a little too much time on your hands and need to get a real life.
I will also say when I am wrong I will be the first to admit it and try to find out the TRUE facts. But when I am right and I have true friends--not internet buddies-I will defend them to the end.
And like Blitzen says line breeding and inbreeding are used to create lines. They are tools. If you constantly outcross you may produce good here and there but you will never have consistency. And if you specifically linebreed for one or two things, not focusing on the total picture--well just look around and you will know what you'll get. Many many examples of it out there.....................
Come on Moons just say I don't like that much linebreeding and I would never do it. That's fine it's your preference. But don't drag in trivial stuff like birthdates and AKC #s.
I can tell you this they are AKC and UKC registered. And the reason I said to ask me anything you wanted to know is because I am the one that put that pedigree up. I put up the info I was given to work with. But as I have said before I know what she does and I happen to know the dogs
Anyone can say anything they like but if you don't know the person or the dogs and you have nothing better to do than look up pedigrees and bash the ones that don't fit in with your program, I'd say you have a little too much time on your hands and need to get a real life.
I will also say when I am wrong I will be the first to admit it and try to find out the TRUE facts. But when I am right and I have true friends--not internet buddies-I will defend them to the end.
And like Blitzen says line breeding and inbreeding are used to create lines. They are tools. If you constantly outcross you may produce good here and there but you will never have consistency. And if you specifically linebreed for one or two things, not focusing on the total picture--well just look around and you will know what you'll get. Many many examples of it out there.....................
by Two Moons on 28 September 2011 - 18:09
Vonissk,
The missing information is what made it look like a joke at the onset.
The missing information would tell a lot about the breeding and the breeders.
Yes line breeding and on some rare occasions inbreeding are tools, tools that come with risks.
I did not look up this pedigree and I do not know the breeder so there is no bashing here other than to say this is not the way to line breed and isn't line breeding in my book.
I've been breeding animals since childhood, horse's cattle, poultry, dogs, and so much more.
Taught by my father and grandfather, and many others along the way.
I have seen good results, but more often bad with this type of breeding, with limited consistency.
I wouldn't want an amateur to be encouraged to follow these techniques thinking it was common practice.
As for out cross as you call it, breeding pairs with matching attributes can produce consistency with proper knowledge and I believe is a better practice period.
I have nothing against line breeding at all when done correctly.
But this is way too tight, too close, and not good breeding all things considered.
Moons.
The missing information is what made it look like a joke at the onset.
The missing information would tell a lot about the breeding and the breeders.
Yes line breeding and on some rare occasions inbreeding are tools, tools that come with risks.
I did not look up this pedigree and I do not know the breeder so there is no bashing here other than to say this is not the way to line breed and isn't line breeding in my book.
I've been breeding animals since childhood, horse's cattle, poultry, dogs, and so much more.
Taught by my father and grandfather, and many others along the way.
I have seen good results, but more often bad with this type of breeding, with limited consistency.
I wouldn't want an amateur to be encouraged to follow these techniques thinking it was common practice.
As for out cross as you call it, breeding pairs with matching attributes can produce consistency with proper knowledge and I believe is a better practice period.
I have nothing against line breeding at all when done correctly.
But this is way too tight, too close, and not good breeding all things considered.
Moons.
by Blitzen on 28 September 2011 - 19:09
Vonissk,
It might be best to quit while you're ahead
. A breeder who has been successful for 30 years stands on her own merit.
It might be best to quit while you're ahead
. A breeder who has been successful for 30 years stands on her own merit.by vonissk on 28 September 2011 - 19:09
Thank you Blitzen, you're absolutely right. I have had my say and as I said I will defend my real friends to the end and especially when I know they are right. I've been around breeders and dogs all my life and one thing I do know is a good dog when I see one. And when I see a person that has poured their life into what they believe in and I see good results of that, then that's the kind of things that impress me--not talk, or birthdates, or AKC #s or OFA results.
Think I'll make me a meatloaf sandwich and go read a little Lloyd Brackett and be done with all this.............................
Think I'll make me a meatloaf sandwich and go read a little Lloyd Brackett and be done with all this.............................
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