Fun with show toons - Page 15

Dayle, you said,

"2.  Some believe a solution (for their lines) is to intermix with the working bloodlines.

3.  But, they're not doing it.  ..."


I do not consider it a solution, nor a substitute to offset weak dogs that should be bred anyway.

I DO want to incoporate a WL into my breeding program at some point, for genetic diverstity. I can only speak for myself here, so I will say I have not done it because I have seen a lot of garbage crosses, and only a few that really combine the fine points of both types. I want to go into that experiement with many more years of breeding experience under my belt than I currently have, and I need MUCH more knowledge of working lines to pull in the dog who will bring what I want without changing what I want to keep, if that makes sense. I don't want to blindly throw two dogs together that are night and day. The results suck.

I'll let you in 10-20 years how it goes. :)

What you think of this one ?

And here is the show line version of Javir

As was said on another thread by Randy, there are still good show line producers of good work, such as Amigo line, see this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcdyXgJnJSM
http://youtu.be/JcdyXgJnJSM

"Honestly, how could anyone look at these beautiful Show lines and not be enamored with their good looks and structure...;) "




Some of them are very nice looking. 
The one is the second video looked impressive, although I couldn't see him walking because the print was in the way. I have dial up so didn't see much, but enough to see he was a very nice looking dog;....however, my neighbour got a showline from a fairly expensive kennel and it is not at all good looking.  Tall, long legged, narrow headed, big eared, soooo, just like WL's the really good looking ones are few and far between in my humble opinion, at least I sure haven't seen them, close up that is.  BTW, that is not the only one I've seen close up, I"ve seen quite a few, just not one that catches my eye.

Sunsilver,


In Bobo v Arlett video towards the end  there is some very beautiful gaiting, I wonder if you've seen that part !

Ibrahim

      I think it depends on the pedigree...IMO certain pedigrees seem to throw a consistent look. I know that I am out of my league, and stand to be corrected if necessary...But I think nice pedigrees are not the norm where breeding is concerned....Has anyone ever seen a GSD with a nice VA pedigree turn out unattractive ?.....Just curious....

Having read this thread with some interest, even though the usual arguements are revisited, there are a few things that no one has mentioned. So, being that I tend to stick my foot in my mouth on a regular basis, and I really don't give a rat's ass about the show world, here goes....

1) I have show lines. Thankfully, my showlines have some good working lines close to the female I use for breeding.
2) I have dogs that can work, and are V rated.
3) I DISLIKE most show lines for several reasons....a) the temperament is awful  b) most did not earn their titles  c) beauty rarely counts in a fight  d) most males out there are too damn large and stupid to breed to e) if I find a male I like, chances are he is related to my female too closely
4) The Sieger Show, any Sieger Show is a useless avenue from which to draw influence for breeding. I don't really care how well a dog gaits around in a circle. I am disgusted by SchH2s and SchH3s who suck at the stupid little performance test. SHOW ME THEM ACTUALLY TRIALING!!! Oh and when did the helpers at the GERMAN Sieger Show stop using stick hits???? Most of the dogs in the last sieger show NEVER felt a stick hit or the wind of one. Courage??? very few actually displayed courage, per the videos I saw.
5) Show folks are too worried about puppy sales to bring working line blood into their breedings. The majority do not care if their dogs can work, all they need to do is pass a performance test. It's all about the puppy sales!! The majority breed puppies to get another show winner, so as long as the color is good, the gait is good, just enough work to get by.
6) BUT, guess what? there are some of us who do care about what we produce, and we don't produce puppies just for sale. Some of us, actually produce puppies for ourselves, and then offer the others for sale. We look long and hard, plan years in advance to add what we need to our breeding program.

This year, I chose to breed my bitch to a V rated working line. OMG! he was all black! what the hell was I thinking? I was thinking, I need more of what this dog has. Will breeding get me what I want? I couldn't have cared less what colors I got. I wanted solid temperamented puppies and that is what I got. I knew going in that the "Show folks" wouldn't want my mix of lines, I DID NOT CARE!!! I also knew that working line folks wouldn't want my mix of lines, I DID NOT CARE!!! I knew what I wanted for me!! I got what I wanted, and .....OMG!!! she is a blanket back black and red!! All the males were sold before they were even born. I held onto the females for a few months to make sure I got what I wanted!! if they remaining females had been males, they would have all sold right away. I have ended up with three females who haven't sold. Folks have looked at them, and I have turned several potential owners away, as they were not right for MY puppies. My puppies, tend to go into homes where they work, personal service, SAR, SchH, Law Enforcement(yes there are show lines in law enforcement).

My thought is that too many show lines enthusiasts are in it for the money they get from puppy sales, so they will continue to produce what sells. Every once in awhile you find a breeder who has show lines who sees the value of adding other lines to what they have. If this does not become a more accepted and used practice, we will continue to see "shitters" and lose what little genetic diversity the show lines have. There are always going to be hard core working line folks who disagree with breeding a working line to a show line, because they don't want to see the GSD watered down any more. Well, ya know what???? show folks are going to breed no matter what those hard core folks think.


 

I took some heat for allowing my workingline boy to be bred to a showline gal, but I didn't care.  Every one of those pups are little monsters, unlike any this breeder has ever raised, and who's very pleased by the results.  The offspring aren't intended to attract showline enthusiasts, nor appealing to workingline breeders.  But as end-users in LE and SAR, their owners will be very happy.  For me, it was a basic experiment in how my boy will produce himself, but without the intention of continuing a developed line.  Setting the "type" in the following generation would be a laborious of a project for anyone to undertake.  I already know that specific workinglines can provide to me anything I would require, and more consistently so.