This is a placeholder text
Group text
by vonissk on 03 November 2012 - 02:11
Abby to make a comment on people advertising on sites such as you mentioned, I found this site that had high high dollar pups on it. A lot of them said on the individual ads Ch lines and all that. Well I wrote the people and told them I wanted to see a pedigree on this particular pup--I didn't tell them but I wanted to see it because I know that pup wasn't purebred. Well they wrote me back and said no pedigrees because the pups were only sold to pet people and never for breeding. In other words, people that didn't have a clue. I know a couple of people that breed the off colors that that's the only place they will advertise. Why? You already said it......................
by Abby Normal on 03 November 2012 - 06:11
Sorry Bee
I can tell just by looking at your 'contenders' in this fight, that they are just too hollow, haven't got the guts to last out a good fight lol. One bite n it'll be all over....
I can tell just by looking at your 'contenders' in this fight, that they are just too hollow, haven't got the guts to last out a good fight lol. One bite n it'll be all over....
by Abby Normal on 03 November 2012 - 12:11
Heavens, I can be so dumb sometimes. I just figured it out! It's not even that Vonissk, though all of those reasons apply.
But the glaringly obvious one (that I missed) comes right back to what it's all about - money.
The different addresses for the ads, pups raised at different locations, no mention of litters on the website - it's all crystal clear to me now. Hit me right between the eyes, just can't believe it took me that long.
For the facebook group...remember there is more than one way to skin a cat and the KC has all the records.......
But the glaringly obvious one (that I missed) comes right back to what it's all about - money.
The different addresses for the ads, pups raised at different locations, no mention of litters on the website - it's all crystal clear to me now. Hit me right between the eyes, just can't believe it took me that long.
For the facebook group...remember there is more than one way to skin a cat and the KC has all the records.......
by GSD John on 03 November 2012 - 12:11
The breeder did have up on her website the scores of the Liver Bitch, but it seems to be taken off as has the write up of the bad press that was received, according to a recent update more information will be available, when the website is updated.
Colour will always be a bone of contention but the facts are they are here, and as Linda has already mentioned, it is the Lines that need to be looked at, regardless of who has a blue/white they are still some ones beloved dog.
It would be so encouraging if Steve Dean is willing to take some action, we hope that is the case, and Linda is right using any information that is factual from discussions on groups lets him see exactly what is going on, especially regarding lines, the more information the better, maybe things have moved on since we last made contact with the KC, we hope so, as it was only with vital information from the Vet who attended these dogs with Epilepsy, that the KC would do anything.
Margaret
Colour will always be a bone of contention but the facts are they are here, and as Linda has already mentioned, it is the Lines that need to be looked at, regardless of who has a blue/white they are still some ones beloved dog.
It would be so encouraging if Steve Dean is willing to take some action, we hope that is the case, and Linda is right using any information that is factual from discussions on groups lets him see exactly what is going on, especially regarding lines, the more information the better, maybe things have moved on since we last made contact with the KC, we hope so, as it was only with vital information from the Vet who attended these dogs with Epilepsy, that the KC would do anything.
Margaret
by Abby Normal on 03 November 2012 - 23:11
Margaret
I don't recall ever seeing the hip score of the liver bitch, since this thread began at least, after I was prompted to look by the mention of 'chocolate' GSDs and puppies. Perhaps she will put up the scores (or unscored status) of all her dogs when the website is updated. Can you recall what the score was stated to be?
Overall I have been looking at the health history (such as hip scores etc) as well as the lines for colour, which we are discussing carrying epilepsy.together with the general practices of this particular breeder as she was drawn to my attention. The more I look the more I find.
Of course each and every dog produced will be become someone's beloved dog and always they are always the innocent parties, who end up suffering the pain and tragedy somewhere down the road.
I too hope that the KC will pay more attention this time, and that it will also pave the way in future to what we have been asking for for a very long time - mandatory health testing with puppies only being registered from dogs with passing grades in recommended health tests for the relevant breeds. The two areas are unconnected but symptomatic, they tend to go hand in hand, but not exclusively. But, one thing at a time......the KC are never quick to act, if they act at all.
I don't recall ever seeing the hip score of the liver bitch, since this thread began at least, after I was prompted to look by the mention of 'chocolate' GSDs and puppies. Perhaps she will put up the scores (or unscored status) of all her dogs when the website is updated. Can you recall what the score was stated to be?
Overall I have been looking at the health history (such as hip scores etc) as well as the lines for colour, which we are discussing carrying epilepsy.together with the general practices of this particular breeder as she was drawn to my attention. The more I look the more I find.
Of course each and every dog produced will be become someone's beloved dog and always they are always the innocent parties, who end up suffering the pain and tragedy somewhere down the road.
I too hope that the KC will pay more attention this time, and that it will also pave the way in future to what we have been asking for for a very long time - mandatory health testing with puppies only being registered from dogs with passing grades in recommended health tests for the relevant breeds. The two areas are unconnected but symptomatic, they tend to go hand in hand, but not exclusively. But, one thing at a time......the KC are never quick to act, if they act at all.
by GSD John on 03 November 2012 - 23:11
Abby,
The hip score of the bitch on the breeder's website was a total of 74 bred by Krackenedge.
It is so sad to read the account of Epilepsy that has also been produced, and that is why, it is so very important that although putting information up on a website is good, it is much better in my opinion, to share that information with the Kennel Club and with Chris Hazell, people can work well together if they have a common goal, and communication between each other can only be for the greater good.
Margaret
The hip score of the bitch on the breeder's website was a total of 74 bred by Krackenedge.
It is so sad to read the account of Epilepsy that has also been produced, and that is why, it is so very important that although putting information up on a website is good, it is much better in my opinion, to share that information with the Kennel Club and with Chris Hazell, people can work well together if they have a common goal, and communication between each other can only be for the greater good.
Margaret
by Abby Normal on 04 November 2012 - 08:11
Margaret
I thought it was the 74 scoring bitch. Krakenedge site has been down a few days. Absolutely, I totally agree with you, and this information will be collected and given to the Kennel Club. I am sure Linda is doing a fine job and she is very focused on it. Knowing what is in lines is something that most people buying a puppy are unlikely to know even if they saw a pedigree, and few will get to know that they could contact Chris Hazell.
However, in the meantime and whilst this major activity goes on, It is my opinion that the 'side issues' like this, could and should also be brought out into the open, to educate any unwary people who are possibly lured in by the idea of these novelty puppies, to be able to make choices based upon something they can find out for themselves. To find yourself with a severely dysplastic dog can be very distressing too , and while there are means to improve the situation if you have the finances, aften the type of people that will buy arent the type that will necessarily think of insuring lifelong and therefore be able to take that road. There are no guarantees with hips, but there are guidelines that are in place as outlined earlier in this thread to give puppies the best possible chance of having good hips, and that is not breeding to dogs with unknown hip status and bad scores.
Take the poster who I met, who had done research. I don't know what research that was, but it didnt cover the basics of hip scores, or maybe they were told the dogs were hip screened and thought that was hip scored. Maybe some people just believe what they are told. I want this thread to be eye opening. I want them to question why they are not seeing hip scores on websites. If they saw 74 producing a litter of puppies I want them to be as horrified as I am, walk away and find another breeder who does it properly. In this case, they wouldn't see that the breeder has a litter of puppies from this bitch because it is not on her website, so it raises the question why? It is just another string to the education as to what this breeder is about.
There are some other changes in the offing regarding licensing which are likely to affect some of these breeders too. There needs to be a variety of approaches to tackling the practices of these breeders IMO.
I thought it was the 74 scoring bitch. Krakenedge site has been down a few days. Absolutely, I totally agree with you, and this information will be collected and given to the Kennel Club. I am sure Linda is doing a fine job and she is very focused on it. Knowing what is in lines is something that most people buying a puppy are unlikely to know even if they saw a pedigree, and few will get to know that they could contact Chris Hazell.
However, in the meantime and whilst this major activity goes on, It is my opinion that the 'side issues' like this, could and should also be brought out into the open, to educate any unwary people who are possibly lured in by the idea of these novelty puppies, to be able to make choices based upon something they can find out for themselves. To find yourself with a severely dysplastic dog can be very distressing too , and while there are means to improve the situation if you have the finances, aften the type of people that will buy arent the type that will necessarily think of insuring lifelong and therefore be able to take that road. There are no guarantees with hips, but there are guidelines that are in place as outlined earlier in this thread to give puppies the best possible chance of having good hips, and that is not breeding to dogs with unknown hip status and bad scores.
Take the poster who I met, who had done research. I don't know what research that was, but it didnt cover the basics of hip scores, or maybe they were told the dogs were hip screened and thought that was hip scored. Maybe some people just believe what they are told. I want this thread to be eye opening. I want them to question why they are not seeing hip scores on websites. If they saw 74 producing a litter of puppies I want them to be as horrified as I am, walk away and find another breeder who does it properly. In this case, they wouldn't see that the breeder has a litter of puppies from this bitch because it is not on her website, so it raises the question why? It is just another string to the education as to what this breeder is about.
There are some other changes in the offing regarding licensing which are likely to affect some of these breeders too. There needs to be a variety of approaches to tackling the practices of these breeders IMO.
by Hundmutter on 04 November 2012 - 08:11
Abby.
by pod on 04 November 2012 - 09:11
Great thread. Kudos to you Abby.
by LilyDexter on 04 November 2012 - 22:11
I find it very worrying that the term 'Accredited Breeder' is used as a hallmark of quality, when in reality most accredited breeders are the ones who breed lots of litters per year and buy & sell dogs like there's no tomorrow. They know that people will be more likely to buy their pups as they think they are getting better quality & so they use the KC as a sure way of selling litters, they often can't even fill the demand it's so high.
I bought my new pup from a small breeder, they were'nt accredited to the KC as a small time breeder wouldn't have a few hundred pounds to waste on the KC fee. But my beeder did everything (and more) that was required of an Accredited breeder,and sold most of the pups at half price in partnerships, so wasn't purely out to make money like many are.
When I bought my last GSD 6 years ago I visited a local breeder from the KC site & was met with filthy dogs that couldn't come in the house to greet us (because they would make us muddy - bit were probably of unstable temperament) the breeder didn't know the pups parentage off the top of her head (probably as she bred too many) but had to consult a file. The dogs I saw were of poor quality & she said some lived with her & others at the stables & with er mum (suspicious). As for the pup itself it was a sad thing, 9 wks old, covered in mud, shaking ike a lea in a small crate that was littered with poo. I left disgusted. But over the years I have checke don the site & there is always a litter for sale fom this breeeder & more recently I saw they were now Accrdited - that just about says it all!!
I know of breeders n other breeders who refuse to join the scheme as they think the standards are too low & I agree.
My standards would be that If you are an accredited breeder then you should breed no more than 3 litters per year, your dogs should live in the home environment so that they are well socialised to the home environment so you should have no more than about 6. Mum should be at least 3 yrs, dad at least 2yrs with all releveant health certificates, elbows to be 0/0, hips under 15 total, eyes clear and any other tests relevant to be done (DM for GSD's too). No breeding on back to back seasons, pups born in the home & kept indoors until 8wks, sold with the first vaccination & microchip. And colours produced must be recognised by the KC. This is not difficult achieve, it's what my pups breeder quite naturallly fulfilled as she does it for the love of the breed, not profit.
I bought my new pup from a small breeder, they were'nt accredited to the KC as a small time breeder wouldn't have a few hundred pounds to waste on the KC fee. But my beeder did everything (and more) that was required of an Accredited breeder,and sold most of the pups at half price in partnerships, so wasn't purely out to make money like many are.
When I bought my last GSD 6 years ago I visited a local breeder from the KC site & was met with filthy dogs that couldn't come in the house to greet us (because they would make us muddy - bit were probably of unstable temperament) the breeder didn't know the pups parentage off the top of her head (probably as she bred too many) but had to consult a file. The dogs I saw were of poor quality & she said some lived with her & others at the stables & with er mum (suspicious). As for the pup itself it was a sad thing, 9 wks old, covered in mud, shaking ike a lea in a small crate that was littered with poo. I left disgusted. But over the years I have checke don the site & there is always a litter for sale fom this breeeder & more recently I saw they were now Accrdited - that just about says it all!!
I know of breeders n other breeders who refuse to join the scheme as they think the standards are too low & I agree.
My standards would be that If you are an accredited breeder then you should breed no more than 3 litters per year, your dogs should live in the home environment so that they are well socialised to the home environment so you should have no more than about 6. Mum should be at least 3 yrs, dad at least 2yrs with all releveant health certificates, elbows to be 0/0, hips under 15 total, eyes clear and any other tests relevant to be done (DM for GSD's too). No breeding on back to back seasons, pups born in the home & kept indoors until 8wks, sold with the first vaccination & microchip. And colours produced must be recognised by the KC. This is not difficult achieve, it's what my pups breeder quite naturallly fulfilled as she does it for the love of the breed, not profit.
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top
