Chocolate GSDs....sigh - Page 10

As Abby wote, "Well I think it proved the breeder was trying to maximise her buck making opportunities yet again" Sorry did not know this link had been added before 

Well Margaret isn't it ludicrous to publish a code of ethics, state that breeders who don't comply with it can be barred from the KC - and then admit that it is worthless! Either that, or Bill Lambert was a waste of space who had neither the wit nor will to actually do anything for the benefit of dogs, which should be their raison d'etre. It is time that the KC stepped up to the plate. It's no good just having fancy words, the time has come to be called to account and to act upon them. Changes have been and are afoot, and perhaps now we can try and make some headway.

Unfortunately history shows that the KC are defined much the same way as these breeders - it's all about the money......

  Abby,
   It would help a great deal if Pet Owners, who have dogs that suffer from Epilepsy are encouraged to send in their details to Bill Lambert and Steve Dean at the Kennel Club, and to Chris Hazell,this will add a lot of weight to what we are trying to achieve,the facts then would speak for themselves. It is sadly not enough to write and put on here about dogs with Epilepsy and EPI it needs to be brought to the attention of the Breed Health Co- ordinator and the KC as without verification from the dog owners  nothing will get done.

   Margaret

Yes folks that is what I am hoping my letter to Steve Dean will start to achieve.
Me 'n' Mr Lambert - forget it !  Been there, got  the Tshirt.
Its a bit different now because we have a cluster of cases we can tie into the
same lines.

KItKat - are you absolutely sure ; how far back have you looked ?  Even in
America, the white shepherds almost always go back eventually to English dogs
generally - which in turn go back to earlier German dogs.  And where there are
white dogs in a kennels you eventually almost always get blue and liver -  not to
say there CANNOT be genetic mutation leading to funny colours on other odd
branches of the family tree ... but the MAIN problem is the inbreeding which has
been used to FIX the colours so they crop up more reguarly and you get more of
them (and therefore more £$£$).

Unfortunately it has become obvious over the years that where they have
used certain dogs to fix colours, they have also got a preponderance of dogs
with health defects.  Some can be bred away from gradually, for instance you
can reduce poor hip scores over generations (doesn't help puppy owners
while you are getting there ...), but if you keep breeding lines going back to
epilepsy, the gene stays there and will eventually reappear in a number of dogs.
Anyone who doubts this background, go over to the White Shepherd Forum,
read 'Scam' and some other threds. 

NB I am not talking about breeding a hip score of 20 down to a score of 6 here;
I'm referring to starting with 30s, 76, 84 ... and over time coming down to the 'teens.
A lot of these dogs have been bred first, scored later ; and thats only the ones
that have been scored at all - many hung on long after other breeders were scoring
regularly, and too many still get a score for one or two dogs then hang on with a
wing & a prayer that the relatives are ok.

I agree Margaret that some of it is down to reporting by the individual pet owners -
but if there is a WILL to do so, much can be traced through the registration of litters, info.
that generally only breeders and the KC look at.  Now if the KC made this specific info 
more publicly available to dog owners in general, maybe they would start to report more
and maybe they'd feel less alone, too !  Meanwhile, the PDB and anywhere else like this
that can be used, should be.

Glad someone else sees and is willing to admit this:



               And where there are white dogs in a kennels you eventually almost always get blue and liver - not to
say there CANNOT be genetic mutation leading to funny colours on other odd
branches of the family tree ...

 

I had a look at the White Swiss Shepherd thread.  One of those pedigrees goes back to Lorenz of Charavigne through Lord Gryphon..........all roads lead back eventually - albeit distantly. One pedigree links through to Anrebi lines and I think that must be a mistake LOL.

" And where there are white dogs in a kennels you eventually almost always get blue and liver - not to
say there CANNOT be genetic mutation leading to funny colours on other odd
branches of the family tree"

You will find the connection between Whites and Blues/Livers is more down to the liking of the breeders for these colours than any genetic link, white is a masking gene and the other two are dilute genes.  As a general rule in UK, whites come from old English lines and blues/livers from German lines.

Margaret N-J

Sorry Margaret [NJ],  I wasn't being terribly clear there !  Yes, you are
right about preference rather than genetics - which is why I put
"almost always";
However - there are many german lines which carry white, and there
are some older 'english' (based on german, of course !) lines with
blue in;   AND  the whole thing is a glorious mish-mash by now.  What
is most worrying is the concentration of the lines on the dogs used to
fix the colour, (whichever their origins)  and the amount of epilepsy that
has been compounded in that.

I should have put the second bit in a separate sentence !  No doubt there
are / will be other carriers - or sufferers of epilepsy - coming along from
time to time but without obvious connections to this particular 'circle' - but
the problems with evidence and definite results are stronger there;  lets
just try talking to the KC about links we can prove.

There is some overlap with coat-length, but it does not seem to be THE
central issue.  And like I keep saying : anyone moving AWAY from re-
building bloodlines to these old-style dogs is not being tarred with the
same brush.

Why would one advertise the 'chocolate' puppies for sale on Pets4Homes as opposed to ones own website do you think? Is it to target those who literally will have no idea at all about GSDs, or the health tests they should have, but will buy them on a whim due to their colour? So that you don't have to explain away the high hip score of the dam to someone who *might* have an idea about GSDs? Would a breeder who wants to find the best homes possible for their precious puppies seek them on Pets4Homes? Really?

Or is it to try and conceal the fact that she has knowingly bred a litter from a bitch with a 74 hip score? (The next BRS will reveal anyway) Just musing.......

hisblue, if you did make the posts and are still following this thread (human nature says you would), I hope you are learning something from it.

  I got a dog in this fight, lol..... ....make that two,
...and the last one's blue...lol...