Not a bad Ch, personally I would prefer a bit more performance, he reminds me of his grandsire in this respect, but as I have only seen him a few times and don't know the dog well I won't make comments in ignorance like some.

Secopnded Kas! Without doubt one of the best home bred males in the country at present, and also producing some super pups.

A handsome male of harmonious construction, a worthy Champion! Congratulations to owner/breeder, you have right to feel proud.
Best Wishes, Kas

MARTIN COTTER IS A "CYBER-STALKER"
HE HAS BEEN STALKING ME (DAVID PAYNE-VIDEX GSD) FOR 3+ YEARS.
MARTIN COTTER HAS MANY PSEUDONYMS ON THIS 'FORUM' INCLUDING 'BONNIEDOON' - 'SPECTATOR' - 'WHISPERER' - 'OLDDOG' - 'PATRISHAP' - 'TANGO' AND MANY MORE.
MARTIN COTTER HAS BEEN BANNED FROM MANY OTHER GSD FORUMS AROUND THE WORLD INCLUDING AUS YAHOO & THE IRELAND GSD FORUM.
HE ATTACKS ME, MY FAMILY, FRIENDS AND MY DOGS. HE HAS AN EVIL OBSESSION WITH ME CLEARLY BORN OUT OF ENVY, JEALOUSY AND AN OVERWHELMING DESIRE FOR PERSONAL NOTORIETY.
THIS PATHETICALLY INSANE MAN HAS NOW RENDERED THIS FORUM A 'NO GO' AREA ON THE INTERNET. IT IS VERY UNFORTUNATE THAT SUCH A VALUABLE AND ENJOYABLE DATABASE FOR THE GSD IS ALLOWED TO BE ABUSED BY ANONYMOUS 'INTERNET STALKERS'
I REGRET THAT ANY RESPECTFUL GSD ENTHUSIAST IS COMPLETELY ALIENATED FROM THIS SITE.
UNTIL EFFECTIVE CONTROLS ARE IN PLACE TO STOP THE ACTIVITIES OF 'MARTIN COTTER' AND HIS MANY ALIAS'S - IT IS BEST TO AVOID THIS 'FORUM'.

MARTIN COTTER IS A "CYBER-STALKER"
HE HAS BEEN STALKING ME (DAVID PAYNE-VIDEX GSD) FOR 3+ YEARS.
MARTIN COTTER HAS MANY PSEUDONYMS ON THIS 'FORUM' INCLUDING 'BONNIEDOON' - 'SPECTATOR' - 'WHISPERER' - 'OLDDOG' - 'PATRISHAP' - 'TANGO' AND MANY MORE.
MARTIN COTTER HAS BEEN BANNED FROM MANY OTHER GSD FORUMS AROUND THE WORLD INCLUDING AUS YAHOO & THE IRELAND GSD FORUM.
HE ATTACKS ME, MY FAMILY, FRIENDS AND MY DOGS. HE HAS AN EVIL OBSESSION WITH ME CLEARLY BORN OUT OF ENVY, JEALOUSY AND AN OVERWHELMING DESIRE FOR PERSONAL NOTORIETY.
THIS PATHETICALLY INSANE MAN HAS NOW RENDERED THIS FORUM A 'NO GO' AREA ON THE INTERNET. IT IS VERY UNFORTUNATE THAT SUCH A VALUABLE AND ENJOYABLE DATABASE FOR THE GSD IS ALLOWED TO BE ABUSED BY ANONYMOUS 'INTERNET STALKERS'
I REGRET THAT ANY RESPECTFUL GSD ENTHUSIAST IS COMPLETELY ALIENATED FROM THIS SITE.
UNTIL EFFECTIVE CONTROLS ARE IN PLACE TO STOP THE ACTIVITIES OF 'MARTIN COTTER' AND HIS MANY ALIAS'S - IT IS BEST TO AVOID THIS 'FORUM'.

MARTIN COTTER IS A "CYBER-STALKER"
HE HAS BEEN STALKING ME (DAVID PAYNE-VIDEX GSD) FOR 3+ YEARS.
MARTIN COTTER HAS MANY PSEUDONYMS ON THIS 'FORUM' INCLUDING 'BONNIEDOON' - 'SPECTATOR' - 'WHISPERER' - 'OLDDOG' - 'PATRISHAP' - 'TANGO' AND MANY MORE.
MARTIN COTTER HAS BEEN BANNED FROM MANY OTHER GSD FORUMS AROUND THE WORLD INCLUDING AUS YAHOO & THE IRELAND GSD FORUM.
HE ATTACKS ME, MY FAMILY, FRIENDS AND MY DOGS. HE HAS AN EVIL OBSESSION WITH ME CLEARLY BORN OUT OF ENVY, JEALOUSY AND AN OVERWHELMING DESIRE FOR PERSONAL NOTORIETY.
THIS PATHETICALLY INSANE MAN HAS NOW RENDERED THIS FORUM A 'NO GO' AREA ON THE INTERNET. IT IS VERY UNFORTUNATE THAT SUCH A VALUABLE AND ENJOYABLE DATABASE FOR THE GSD IS ALLOWED TO BE ABUSED BY ANONYMOUS 'INTERNET STALKERS'
I REGRET THAT ANY RESPECTFUL GSD ENTHUSIAST IS COMPLETELY ALIENATED FROM THIS SITE.
UNTIL EFFECTIVE CONTROLS ARE IN PLACE TO STOP THE ACTIVITIES OF 'MARTIN COTTER' AND HIS MANY ALIAS'S - IT IS BEST TO AVOID THIS 'FORUM'.

MARTIN COTTER IS A "CYBER-STALKER"
HE HAS BEEN STALKING ME (DAVID PAYNE-VIDEX GSD) FOR 3+ YEARS.
MARTIN COTTER HAS MANY PSEUDONYMS ON THIS 'FORUM' INCLUDING 'BONNIEDOON' - 'SPECTATOR' - 'WHISPERER' - 'OLDDOG' - 'PATRISHAP' - 'TANGO' AND MANY MORE.
MARTIN COTTER HAS BEEN BANNED FROM MANY OTHER GSD FORUMS AROUND THE WORLD INCLUDING AUS YAHOO & THE IRELAND GSD FORUM.
HE ATTACKS ME, MY FAMILY, FRIENDS AND MY DOGS. HE HAS AN EVIL OBSESSION WITH ME CLEARLY BORN OUT OF ENVY, JEALOUSY AND AN OVERWHELMING DESIRE FOR PERSONAL NOTORIETY.
THIS PATHETICALLY INSANE MAN HAS NOW RENDERED THIS FORUM A 'NO GO' AREA ON THE INTERNET. IT IS VERY UNFORTUNATE THAT SUCH A VALUABLE AND ENJOYABLE DATABASE FOR THE GSD IS ALLOWED TO BE ABUSED BY ANONYMOUS 'INTERNET STALKERS'
I REGRET THAT ANY RESPECTFUL GSD ENTHUSIAST IS COMPLETELY ALIENATED FROM THIS SITE.
UNTIL EFFECTIVE CONTROLS ARE IN PLACE TO STOP THE ACTIVITIES OF 'MARTIN COTTER' AND HIS MANY ALIAS'S - IT IS BEST TO AVOID THIS 'FORUM'.

Heather:

I must have mislaid my invite, never mind.

I hope you all have a very enjoyable party, and I feel sure I will not even be mentioned, or missed.

CONGRATULTIONS

I agree whith u Heather 100% !!!!

Cubillas

As this is the end of all the comments about Chivalry. I would just like to wish his owner the very best wishes for this weekend, who along with ourselves, is holding a joint champions party in Scotland to celebrate both Champion Chivalry and our own Champion Conbhairean Alexis. I sincerely hope this will be a fantastic night(it is certainly shaping up that way) and one the owner of Chivalry can enjoy, after all the furore surrounding their dog. I certainly plan to have a good time and enjoy a few drinks with friends and dog lovers alike. Isn't this, what dogs should be about? Well done Chivalry and Alexis, you did your owners proud.

kas:
Such suggestions are immature and are used to avoid a meaningful response.

Kas:


It is clear to satify you, and maybe others, that I should have expanded my very first comment thus:

In what is an otherwise excellent male, and if my memory serves me correctly, he is the most unsound (rear hocks) Champion in the United Kingdom I have ever seen, a reflection on the Judges who gave him his top awards and the state of Judging in the UK these days. All Championship show Judges with appointments in the following year should be given intensive training in the GSD standard and relative severity of faults. Such training to be provided in the year prior to the year they have a Judging appointment and such a scheme to be mandatory, ongoing and linked with a Judging Assessment Scheme.

THE END

Hinterhaus - My apologies - one last thing!
SOLO - Your decision to ignore my question of putting your money where your mouth is Re: the 20km gait, did not go un-noticed.

hirtenhaus : I could'nt agree more!
Jozolli : From what you write you speak much sence, I can see it, others can see it. I dont know who you are, nor do I wish to as who you are is irrelevent, what you say speaks for itself.
Solo : Do you ever fully read and/or comprehend what anybody writes? My answer to that would have to be NO. Why? Because if you had accurately read and fully understood my last comments, you would realise the impossibility of this task. However just for YOUR BENEFIT I will re-emphasise what I said in more simple terms for you to understand:-
I am of the opinion that NAMING an animal in a Negative manner i.e. Highlighting only its faults, is destructive to the breed. Therefore in order for me to give a fair & positive assessment of any unsound champion I would have to give a more comprehensive critique of the animal & it's performance in relation to those other animals he/she was in competition with on the day. Now do you understand?
Needless to say, I gave my opinion on Chivalry after been present at the Show last Sunday. I watched and appraised the animals competing with my own eyes. Unlike you who remained at home to attend your dogs. I leave it up to the rest of the readers who was in the best position to judge!
And now, as I am in agreement with the sentiments expressed by Hirtenhaus I believe this should be my last response on the subject.

Guys!!! Please go to a boxing ring and start bashing up each other. This poor dog is caught in between all your abuses and mud slinging at each other. This is going nowhere.

You badly misinterpreted me there Solo. The dog will suffer in his reputation, his stud use and when people look back on him because of your behaviour.
And my pointing out the quality of judges Chivalry has won under highlights how well the dog is doing - it does not cast aspersions on judges in this country.
I compared Varus only to other Videx dogs. Yes he is a good dog and I like him, but, like any of the top males, he is beatable, dependant on the judges preference, the opposition and his condition and performance.

JOZOLLI:

you stated:Another show you were not at.

NO - I was at the Sieger Show

You have both said it all, kas; go ahead and give the full critique of previous UK Germanic champions that were unsound.

Jozolli: you couldn't have highlighted what GSD JUDGES CAN AND WILL DO in OUR GSD SHOW SCENE:

YOUR WORDS
"Further to this, your current dog is, in my opinion, the best Videx male I have seen since Yasso, probably better and he stands to suffer from your behaviour. Sad really."

I REPEAT YOUR WORDS

"and he stands to suffer from your behaviour."

GSD JUDGE CONTROL = SHUT UP OR ELSE

my answer - NOT ON YOUR LIFE

And before you respond negatively (again) I wish to point out that I think its a shame you have chosen this road for yourself.
I have no doubt your experience could have been put to good use if you could only find a way to be constructive rather than destructive.
Further to this, your current dog is, in my opinion, the best Videx male I have seen since Yasso, probably better and he stands to suffer from your behaviour. Sad really.

Referance has already been made to this dogs vigorous training schedule and his endurance capabilities yet you are self indulgent enough to make a ridiculous statement about the dog like some breed soothsayer. Worse still because you state it like a fact, rather than an unfounded prediction.
People will judge this dog themselves, like the SV judges, the UK breed assesors and the others who have placed him so highly.
The sooner the less enlightened users of this site realise that you have no credibility left in the UK and are on an unrestricted assault of every top animal in the country (which has already resulted in your apologies to judges and owners alike)- the better.

Are you prepared to put money on your last statement?

As for naming other unsound UK Champions: - As previously stated; It is not my policy to name other dog/s on a purely critical manner just to prove a point, to do so, without mentioning the qualities it had to offer especially in relation to the other animals competing against it at the time would serve no purpose except one, Negativity! Not to mention at the same time do an injustice to the dog/s and the judges who promoted them.

For example;- When writing a critique on a dog what do you think people would say about the judge who only mentioned soundness(or the lack of it)?. Would you, or anyone else believe that judge knew what they were doing? Would anyone be able to invisage what the dog looked like?. What Type it was? What colour/coat, proportions, angles it had? Did it have all it's teeth, eyes light or dark, ears down or erect? Was it gait fluent, far reaching, powerful drive or did it amble, short step, move overbuilt, short croup......NEED I GO ON?

Name a Germanic GSD Champion who was unsound behind.

This is the CRUX of the issue, lets STICK to it.

Point of information:

During the AD test, 20 km gaiting, the dogs physical condition, ESPECIALLY HIS PADS, are examined at stages during the test. With his unsoundness, and peculiar 'shuffle' Chivalry's pads would be bleeding almost certainly after the first 7 kms, and most definitely after 14 kms, and he would be stopped from continuing.

Solo: There you go again with your patronising attitude, why should liking football necessarily make me a man? I know lots of ladies who are interested in football.
If I were now to say Scrappy match but great result, would you then deduce that I am could not be Scottish?
Why does it matter so much who I am? If I be male or female, Scottish, English, Welsh or Irish, rich or poor, black or white, Catholic or Prodestant, gay or hetrosexual? Prey tell, why does any of that really matter? Surely what is important is the value expressed in that opinion, not their Sex, Nationality, Colour, Creed or Persuation.
Sir, the real sadness is that you are capable of making some very necessary points but unfortunately they are lost through your inability to stop yourself from keeping personalities out of the equation.
One thing to be said for annonimity is that it stops Constructive Critisms from becoming personnal slanging matches. Perhaps you should equip yourself with a psuedo name and try it sometime. Though I suspect it wouldnt be long before everyone guessed who you were because of your inability to refrain from promoting your own dogs whilst insulting others.

Another show you were not at.

A compliment for a Scottish GSD

I would have really liked Zidan to have won the Best of Breed at the SKC, I feel sure he would have done very well in the Group, etc.

I honestly wish I knew who you think Kas is Solo. Coz if you think its Kevan.... thats as mad a comment as you've managed. lol

kas: Kevin

wrote:
"He is not rushed from the car straight into the ring and back into the car again as soon as the class is over like so many others I could mention."

Oh!! I would love to hear just one name from you, guess which one????????????

kas:

Hello Kevin

I also so do not keep repeating myself in my comments. Once said is enough.
If people dont want to listen in the first place they are even less likely to listen the second time around. Some never learn this lesson.
As for being Frustrated at the annonimity of other subscribers? Not I. It does not bother me if the person wishes to remain annonymous and from what I have read the only person it does seem to bother is you.
It is the validity of their comments which matter and it is that which interests me the most, not their identities. I have enough confidence in my ability to assess the quality of knowledge and common sence expressed by the writings of others whithout having to know who they are.
Over the centuries there have been many authors who write under assumed names, some to escape bigotry, some to escape fame. Even those who have written books in their real name have also written under a pen name. It didnt make what they wrote less valid and providing it maintained a standard it was still read and acclaimed.
If it helps you any, I will tell you I am not a laywer, neither would I profess to be one, anymore than I would profess to being anything other than what I am. A nobody? Well in your eyes it seems I am and if that's your opinion thats cool, you are entitled to it just as every other individual reading this is entitled to theirs.
Though perhaps I must confess to feeling silently flattered that you should think my writings be such that they could possibly be attributed to such a learned profession as a laywer! Perhaps, I missed my vocation?
Anyway, must dash now because I have much more to do in order to get finished in time to watch the footie tonight.

sounds good - but it's a load of bullshit.
You can say anything you think of, but how do I know, or anyone else know that its true. You may claim to be a Lawyer, many do on this sight, anonymously of course, they think it gives them esteem amongst the others, they claim to be doctors, they claim all kinds of things, ALL ANONYMOUSLY.

It's meaningless, it's bullshit, it's poppycock.

I do not conform, so what?

It doesn't make me a bad person!

It doesn't entitle people to make scurrilous comments about me!

Just imagine if I was ANONYMOUS on this site, how would you, any of you word your replies?

I GUARANTEE YOU WOULD BE BLOODY FRUSTRATED.

I am used to it, indeed I can say anything to you or about you etc, because you are nobody.

There is something rotten about comments coming from anonymous people.

You know it and I know it, indeed most people know it.

sounds good - but it's a load of bullshit.
You can say anything you think of, but how do I know, or anyone else know that its true. You may clainm to be a Lawyer, many do on this sight, anonymously of course, they think it gives them esteem amongst the others, they clainm to be doctors, they clainm all kinds of things, ALL ANONYMOUSLY.

It's meaningless, it's bullshit, it's poppycock.

I do not conform, so what?

It doesn't make me a bad person!

It doesn't entitle people to make scurrilous comments about me!

Just imagine if I was ANONYMOUS on this site, how would you, any of you worded your replies?

I GUARANTEE YOU WOULD BE BLOODY FRUSTRATED.

I am used to it, indeed I can say anything to you about you etc, because you are nobody.

There is something rotten about comments coming from anonymous people.

You know it and I know it, indeed most people know it.

Solo, not everyone feels compelled to be driven towards Self Promotion. My comments were honest, constructive and fair. I do not make it my business to go around consistantly Slagging other people or their dogs. I speak as I find and unlike you I am capable of giving critism without it being offensive and without exaggeration. Unlike you I can also accept constructive critism without offensive retaliation.
I have no need to hide, but neither do I seek nor need to seek the 'Pats on the back' I know I would be receiving from the majority of readers of this site, if I was not to remain annonymous. Unlike you I am confident in myself, my dogs and my life. I do not feel the need to constantly Praise myself or my dogs, they regulary speak for themselves, in the ring. I keep everything I say or do in perspective. I am aware of my own skills and limitations and YES, unlike you I am capable of admitting I have limitations and that I am not always right or perfect. Furthermore, unlike you I love the breed more than my own ego and despise those who do it damage by foolishly thinking THEY are bigger than the breed itself.

definitely worth repeating:

Anyone who can make a digital video of Chivalry when moving away and around please send a copy to me by email - be sure he is walking normally when moving away - not at a fast pace, or slowly.

worth repeating:
The GANG is gathering to attack.
click on the names of the people posting their comments, manyhave joined in the last day or two, ALL CONNECTIONS WITH THIS DOG NO DOUBT.

NOTE ALSO - ALL ANONYMOUS COWARDS.

I will tell you why they are anonymous, it is very simple.

THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE - maybe its a clique

Come on, bring them out, everyone welcome, I am big enough, bold enough, and honest enough for the lot of you.

I actually enjoy a battle, your opposition is pathetic.

I hear no one in Scotland can make even the smallest criticism of the agressive male that resides there, for fear of the wrath of GANGS like you lot.

Welcome to David Payne - your nightmare.

worth repeating:

"The most unsound (rear hocks)Champion in the United Kingdom I have ever seen"

I stand by this statement

There has to be checks and balances in our sport in order to maintain the highest standards possible. One of those checks is being able to make a valid and honest comment when you think it necessary.

Many years ago I watched several YUKKA ALSATION Championship Shows, CC winners regularly had missing teeth and you could see the gaps, and in one case I remember 4 missing teeth. Many had obvious bad temperaments, there were also many other serious faults overlooked.
When I commented on these faults (yes, I have always expressed my opinion without fear or favour) I got replies like "Missing teeth isn't a problem, a dog can still eat and bite with several missing teeth" and "Alsatians are supposed to be cautious with strangers".

Such drivel was stated very clearly and confidently, and in a matter of fact way.

I feel that these types of people have invaded the GERMANIC fraternity, and brought their lower standards into our sport. I call them "GERMANIC YUKKAS"

WE HAVE TO WORK HARD AND STAND UP FOR THE HIGHEST STANDARDS IN OUR BREED.

Thank god the WUSV system is coming to the United Kingdom. This could be our breed’s saviour in these Islands, but only if we work hard to maintain the highest standards.
There should be no tolerance of "GERMANIC YUKKAS" - watch out for them.


PS opening up a gap during gaiting is not unusual for the dog at the front of the class (Judges please note)

Anyone who can make a digital video of Chivaly when moving away and around please send a copy to me by email - be sure he is walking normally when moving away - not at a fast pace, or slowly.

Unlike you? Who has a name and is still a nobody.

with no name you are a nobody

still frightened to give your real name

still hiding

Reading your latest novel, you just sound like a big spoilt and rather immature kid and superbly named.
"PAYNE"


PS. Nothing to do with this dog and not even from Scotland.

Mr Payne - your mental illness has no place here, neither does your paranoia.
If people are compelled to register in response to your, or anyone elses comments about a popular dog why should that surprise you.
Now you want to move on to another male. Fire away and lets see who you mean.

The GANG is gathering to attack.
click on the names of the people posting their comments, manyhave joined in the last day or two, ALL CONNECTIONS WITH THIS DOG NO DOUBT.

NOTE ALSO - ALL ANONYMOUS COWARDS.

I will tell you why they are anonymous, it is very simple.

THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE

Come on, bring them out, everyone welcome, I am big enough, bold enough, and honest enough for the lot of you.

I actually enjoy a battle, your opposition is pathetic.

I hear no one in Scotland can make even the smallest criticism of the agressive male that resides there, for fear of the wrath of GANGS like you lot.

Welcome to David Payne - your nightmare.

"The most unsound (rear hocks) Champion in the United Kingdom I have ever seen"

I stand by this statement

There has to be checks and balances in our sport in order to maintain the highest standards possible. One of those checks is being able to make a valid and honest comment when you think it necessary.

Many years ago I watched several YUKKA ALSATION Championship Shows, CC winners regularly had missing teeth and you could see the gaps, and in one case I remember 4 missing teeth. Many had obvious bad temperaments, there were also many other serious faults overlooked.
When I commented on these faults (yes, I have always expressed my opinion without fear or favour) I got replies like "Missing teeth isn't a problem, a dog can still eat and bite with several missing teeth" and "Alsatians are supposed to be cautious with strangers".

Such drivel was stated very clearly and confidently, and in a matter of fact way.

I feel that these types of people have invaded the GERMANIC fraternity, and brought their lower standards into our sport. I call them "GERMANIC YUKKAS"

WE HAVE TO WORK HARD AND STAND UP FOR THE HIGHEST STANDARDS IN OUR BREED.

Thank god the WUSV system is coming to the United Kingdom. This could be our breed’s saviour in these Islands, but only if we work hard to maintain the highest standards.
There should be no tolerance of "GERMANIC YUKKAS" - watch out for them.


PS opening up a gap during gaiting is not unusual for the dog at the front of the class (Judges please note)

Solo - Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion be it annonymous or otherwise. Unfortunately as always your tendancy to 'over-exaggerate' dispels the credibility of any opinion you ever make. Critism is only constructive when the fault is described in an unbiased measure (I refer to your original posting)- QUOTE:-
"The most unsound (rear hocks) Champion in the UK I have ever seen" UNQUOTE.
If this is the case, you Clearly cannot have been around the rings as long as you claim, either that or you have 'selected' sight or a very short memory.
Critism is a necessity and one which all owners and/or breeders should expect and be prepared to accept. BUT (and its a big but)In order for Critism to be valuable & effective it MUST be CONSTRUCTIVE - Sit only Critism down on its own and it will only ever be NEGATIVE not a POSITIVE. And that Sir is where we differ for negativity alone IS and ONLY ever will be DESTRUCTIVE.

Well somethings never change! To many small minded people with the view "my dogs will always be better than yours", the words Glasses and rose coloured springs to mind.
Not having seen this male(Photo only)and if i were to take on board your views one must question the eyesight and integrity of the championship judges who have awarded him top honours obviously ahead of your males.
I have read no adverse comments regarding this male from eminent people within the breed only from your self, who lets face it, your not realy eminent are you, and certainly not in the same league as some breed specilists.
As your comments regarding this animal are quite costic and amateur i would asume therefore you see him as a constant and considerable threat to your own males ?

He seems to be a gorgeous looking dog in the photo.Cannot comment about his movement as I havenot seen it.

This dog cant defend himself ?,against what exactly, and even if he could, do you think he could be bothered, he's hocky, end of story,so what.Is he what everyone is looking for in a male, thats up to you.

Having just returned from 2 days down south, I was very saddened to read the comments made by some on this page regarding Chivalry. As this dog cannot defend itself, I feel compelled to add my opinion. IMO, the dog could be sounder behind, however the other attributes of this fabulous male have to be weighed up as well. There is a lot more to judging a dog in the ring than fault judging. Also, IMO the unsoundness is no where near as bad as Solo has stated. I think this dog has excellent forward reach, coupled with exellent hind drive, allowing him to move effortlessly around the ring and increase such a gap, as has been seen by many, between himself and others during the gaiting phase. I can also personally vouch for the endurance capability of this dog, who is more than capable of passing the AD test, if the owner chose to go down this route. I have used this dog at stud and would gladly do so again, having seen the quality, type and excellent characters he is so obviously producing in his progeny. Finally, we all know the 'perfect dog' has yet to be born and IMO Chivalry is a worthy Champion with a lot to offer the breed in the UK.

Hmmmmmn,interesting,i do wish the first 3 in open dog had each been given the chance to lead the class, perhaps we all could have seen which was the best mover then ?, if we want to find fault though, how about the way the bitches were judged ?, interesting way to decide the reserve cc dont you think ?.

kas: I did not go to the show on the 10th for two reasons:

1) I was looking after our litters and our dogs. Rhoda was out almost 12 hours, far too long to leave puppies.

2) I did NOT want Varus entered at this Show, Rhoda overruled me. I did not want the judge’s opinion of my dog, and I expected the top awards to go to the dogs that got them, her husband awarded the same dogs the top honours only a few months back. I expected their judging to be consistent.

I WOULD ASK YOU THIS QUESTION:

in your opinion is NO ONE entitled to make a comment on this page (Chivalry comment page) critical of his obvious but unfortunate fault - even those who are not anonymous??????????????

This is a very FUNDAMENTAL question, please answer it.

kas illustrates his or her character by remaining anonymous.

What is a wonderful gift to me is his or her comments about my dogs character - THOUSANDS SAW IMMO IN THE LARGE STADIUM PASS HIS COURAGE TEST IN THE SIEGER 2003,

Everyone who knows IMMO knows he has exceptional character.

VARUS - he has greeted so many around the ring, and many times from within the ring we have lost count.

Zasko SchH3 and several times passed his courage test in a show ring - a fantastic character which his breeding would tell anyone with an ounce pof knowledge.

Darro - a wonderful but somewhat stubborn boy, who also has a super character.

kas you make stupid comments mixed in with some reasonable comments. You are clearly rattled by my opinion, which I am entitled to - but show some balls and add your name or shut up making critical and erroneous comments.

So many around the UK know your talking shit.

Again, utter rubbish from you Solo. Why you repeat what people can read for themselves.... who knows.
I answered each of your absurdities - particularly since you mailed me - that is all - and my comments were very much in regard to Chivalry.
Thanks heavens for Kas... though stand by for Solo's useful stats on when you joined etc.

M.Carter- have you actually watched Che von Oschentor from behind? You may have been to dog shows all over the world but that doesnt prove you know what you are looking at.

kas, have you actually watched the dog move in person? Effortlessly? He struggled around the ring. I've been to dog shows all over the world, there are dogs like this in the American rings, this shuffling, hobbled like rear movement is incorrect no matter how you try to justify it. A severe fault that nobody should accept in a trotting dog.
There were other quality dogs in the show notably the one directly behind this animal called Tolberg Amabassador at Geeswood (I don't how the lines) and Che v. Ochsentor (Rio and Nikita).
It was very apparent even for an outsider that certain handlers were being placed, not the dogs they had on their leashes.

(Solo) "STAND UP AND BE COUNTED"?
Didnt see you doing that at the show on the 10th. Why was that then?
FEELING ASHAMED? Yes YOU should be.
Chivalry has more Character in his nose than some of the dogs you own and have so 'Confidently' offered at stud!
As for his soundness, at least he has never limped around the ring, neither has he ever stood with 10-2 feet. Or is soundness in your book only applicable to hind action?
What's more everyone can have the pleasure of seeing Chivalry regulary around our ringsides, where he can be approached, stroked, hugged or played with. He is not rushed from the car straight into the ring and back into the car again as soon as the class is over like so many others I could mention.
'CHIVALRY' - A very apt name for this lovely dog and a word you would never understand.

All dogs have faults, none are perfect! A judges responsibility is to assess EVERY dog as a Whole, considering every aspect of each dog in competition with each other and then to make an informed decision on which dog (in the judges opinion) has the most virtues to offer.
Of course soundness is important but any sensible judge will realise that the most important faults are those which effect the dogs ability to do its job. No doubt Chivalry could be sounder behind, but he is certainly not the cripple Solo tries to make out to be, otherwise he wouldnt have been able to move so 'effortlessly' around the ring and yet open up a gap between him and the dog in second place. The same can be said of his performance in the Challenge, but then as Solo was not present at the show how would he know? Perhaps he should be accusing himself of being ASHAMED to SHOW HIMSELF eh?
In my opinion there is only ONE type a judge worse than someone who 'Fault' judges and that is a judge who fails to penalise a Faulty Character. For this is the ONLY Fault where assessment of the rest of the dog might just as well be rendered irrelevent.

zacksmum: go and get an education, then you may be able to mix it with the big boys.

JOZOLLI:

You really should read what you write> Your comments on Chivalry's comments page, INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING:

Did anyone actually expect Solo to be positive about a UK male when Varus is competing? Or when Immo et al are standing at stud?

doesnt deserve your acid remarks any more than the others you attack.

IF you are going Solo... why not go with one or two supporters remaining intact? Only the soap opera fans enjoy your comments and petty fights on this exceptional site!

I apologise to the owner of the dog for the slanging match which is now within his comments but it has to be said - I know you have been a champ show judge in the uk (though I doubt you will be again), Im aware of what and WHO you have promoted,

but you continue to offend people and decry their animals with you holier than thou attitude and extreme paranoia.
I had the pleasure of visiting Germany and Holland this weekend and you truly are despised allover by anyone with the good of the breed in mind. Reluctant though I was to agree before - its true - you really do take the biscuit.
Congratulations on achieving this reputation in the breed. I hope the few who still listen to you realise the error of it and that the honest among us manage to difuse some of your ramblings.

How you justify your bullying tactics Solo I do not know. To e-mail me requesting details of my kennel, my dogs so that you can enlighten me about MY reputation? You are ridiculous. My dogs are none of your concern - unless of course you judge them (hardly) or make comment on them on this site (good luck) and my reputation - again none of your concern, and though you are obviously all knowing all seeing all spewing, I do not care a damn what you think of me or my dogs.
No one (youself aside of course oh great oracle) has seen every dog on this site and as such opinions are valuable for those who look for them.
Venom is useful to no-one.
It was another of your postings where you alude to the germans who do not get fixed on a dogs fault(s) but focus on its attributes. You have no intention of this and thats what makes you dispicable.

I am not sure what you're on about now Solo. I thought the subject was Chivalry?

THIS LAST COMMENT FROM YOU REALLY TAKES THE BISCUIT

solo, are you for real, or is this just one big wind up?

zacksmum, never judged, never lectured, never written any articles!

I am not sure what you're on about now Solo. I thought the subject was Chivalry? And in fact, you may say Im loose lipped about you but compared to many I have said nothing inflammatory, (thats the job of your friends Riccardo and suchlike) - until of course you had the audacity to e-mail me so that you could advise me of MY reputation!
I will post nothing on this site which I would not say to anyone, and I am most certainly not afraid of you or anyone else.
Speculate on if thats what keeps you occupied but for aid.. I have no connection to the owner of Chivalry - that wouldn't make my comments very honest at all now would it?
Get back to talking about the dogs. (if you must)

JOZOLLI what are you afraid of? You clearly have a very loose lip regarding me, my Judging my reputation and other aspects of my personality. You use the word honesty, what a load of bullshit.
Come on lets have alevel playing field, or should I start speculating? Obviously scottish I would think, connected to the owner of Chivalry, well I will keep looking.
In Holland & Germany last weeek-end? Sean is it? or Jo, you are NOT as brave as to STAND UP AND BE COUNTED ARE YOU.
fEELING ASHAMED? YOU SHOULD BE.

I'll stop here with regards to Chivalry, as I have made MY OPINION clear. In the UK his one of few very good males. That makes him exceptional in my opinion. ( @ M.Carter)

How you justify your bullying tactics Solo I do not know. To e-mail me requesting details of my kennel, my dogs so that you can enlighten me about MY reputation? You are ridiculous. My dogs are none of your concern - unless of course you judge them (hardly) or make comment on them on this site (good luck) and my reputation - again none of your concern, and though you are obviously all knowing all seeing all spewing, I do not care a damn what you think of me or my dogs.
No one (youself aside of course oh great oracle) has seen every dog on this site and as such opinions are valuable for those who look for them.
Venom is useful to no-one.
It was another of your postings where you alude to the germans who do not get fixed on a dogs fault(s) but focus on its attributes. You have no intention of this and thats what makes you dispicable.

General bunkum does not impress me or convince others. Sure many don't like me, it’s always the case that when someone refers to me as being disliked they think it bothers me, it doesn't. NOW I HOPE YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THAT, so dont waste your time making meaningless comments. You should read your comments and imagine that someone had said it to you and about you, you will them understand how ridiculous they look, sound and really are.
There are many reasons why I may not Judge again, not the least that 'most appointments' are organised, and you only have to look at those doing the 'organising' again NOT judging does not bother me. There are all sorts of people in life, one thing I have irrefutable ascertained is shit sticks together.

I beg to differ, this is NOT an exceptional male. He has good front reach, is a handsome dog but definatly has something wrong with his rear in movement. He does a shuffle thing with his hind legs that is very disturbing.
I would love to see hip and back xrays on this animal.

I don't for a moment hope to stop your constant rantings, but I will continue to put my opinion against yours where I feel appropriate.
Chivalry is an exceptional example of a GSD male - yes he is very angulated behind but as I have said, he has more endurance than most, has a good hip score and good solid lines behind him, a better nature than most, correct movement, beautiful type, a lovely overline, balanced proportions,a well laid croup of good length, lovely expressive head, etc.
I apologise to the owner of the dog for the slanging match which is now within his comments but it has to be said - I know you have been a champ show judge in the uk (though I doubt you will be again), Im aware of what and WHO you have promoted, and I know how many years you have been involved in the breed, i also know several of your animals and have defended some recent claims surrounding them WHERE THEY WERE INCORRECT, but you continue to offend people and decry their animals with you holier than thou attitude and extreme paranoia.
I had the pleasure of visiting Germany and Holland this weekend and you truly are despised allover by anyone with the good of the breed in mind. Reluctant though I was to agree before - its true - you really do take the biscuit.
Congratulations on achieving this reputation in the breed. I hope the few who still listen to you realise the error of it and that the honest among us manage to difuse some of your ramblings.

zacksmum: predictable rubbish.
Let me make it very clear, when I relocate I wil keep my web-site, and many of my dogs, I will continue breeding, and keep myself up to date with the UK GSD Scene. I will keep visiting this web-site and making my own comments, there is no doubt this site will be 'moderated' in some way very soon. In the meantime, get used to it, I am here to stay, and I will continue to refute the right of anyone to criticise anonymously. I will also continue to use any means possible to identify them.
I trust the morons registered on this web-site can fully understand and digest what I have stated here.

David Payne VIDEX GSD - almost 30 years experience in GSD, GSD hampionship Show Judge, Lectured in the UK and overseas on the GSD, and wrote many articles on the GSD, currently residing in the United Kingdom.

I am fully aware of many of the dog’s good points, but you continue to want this SERIOUS fault to be downgraded in this dog’s case. I ask you would this same fault be treated the same in another mature dog?"
If judges want to give top awards to such a dog, they can, buy others can equally point out the seriousness of this fault. If breeders choose to use a dog with this SERIOUS fault it can be no surprise, many used an Import several years ago which was much worse. THIS DOES NOT MAKE THIS FAULT LESS SERIOUS.

You have also indicated to me that even with a concentrated and planned training schedule, the problem will not correct itself.

I have only one aim and that is to debate the issues related to our breed which need attention. I am sure many will not like attention being drawn to many of this issue. I am equally sure my dogs will frequently pay the price for my audacity in the show ring, and I will pay the price of vicious and scurrilous anonymous attacks. But hey, it will not stop me, life is too short to care, I am almost 60 years old, grossly over-weight and have a chronic blood pressure problem. I am very contented, I enjoy my dogs, my web-site, my trips to Europe and India, and anywhere else I wish to visit. I have all the friends I want, and many acquaintances.
I will stick with REALITY and HONESTY, its much more challenging, especially these days. If so called friends or supporters wish me to compromise on this, I do not want them.

As for 'soap opera' admirers - that's a hell of a lot of ordinary honest people you are referring to.

blaah blaah blaah blaah. solo, please be sure to take your band of cronies with you when you leave. you so obviously enjoy being bigged up by your sycophants on this board. learn to deal with criticism or differing opinions other than your own. i for one hope you dissapear up your own backside soon.

Very informative to the novice Im sure - however Solo... do you know of Chivalry's training regime? I put it to you that he is one of the few males in the ring who CAN endure these distances. As I mentioned, the dog's movement is exceptional. I'll leave it to his trainer to enlighten you. And I should have said before his character is second to none.
But you obviously know all about males passing.... or failing their koerung. ;-)

Everyone must ask themselves what is the reference point for penalising unsoundness in the hocks, must the dog actually fall over before being penalised. You may wish to read the many comments about the importance of soundness in a working dog, particularly a trotting dog. To judge movement of a GSD in the show ring is a very brief period of time. When a dog is unsound it must be accepted that it would not be capable of endurance required in its working function.
This is why the AD test exists in the German system, a dog trots for 20 km, which is approx 14 miles to obtain the AD pass, which is REQUIRED to be able to go on and gain a Schutzhund and Koerung pas for breeding qualification.
It is exactly the right time to raise and re-enforce this issue when an unsound dog gains his title, as it highlights the human failure to maintain perspective regarding serous faults. Of course I find it ridiculous to have Varus placed behind such a dog, many people around the ring would also find it ridiculous, but of course they may want to stay silent so as not to reduce their future prospects in the show ring.
Clearly training for existing Championship Judges along with a Judges assessment scheme is required in the UK

Did anyone actually expect Solo to be positive about a UK male when Varus is competing? Or when Immo et al are standing at stud?

To Solo - All dogs have faults - and we are particularly critical of males in the uk, but this dog has FAR too many positive attributes to be overlooked. Most notably he is a superb mover - not a 'runner' like so many of the inadequately equiped males of today and as such he has won under british and international judges consistantly, and now is producing a beautiful type in his puppies. Time will tell of course, but Chivalry (who is the UKs current top winning male) doesnt deserve your acid remarks any more than the others you attack.

IF you are going Solo... why not go with one or two supporters remaining intact? Only the soap opera fans enjoy your comments and petty fights on this exceptional site!

In fairness to her the judge that gave this dog the ticket on 11.10.04 did draw attention to his hocks in her critique, dont hold back though solo, why not let us know what you dont like about the dog that was behind him,and in front of varus.

The most unsound (rear hocks) Champion in the United Kingdom I have ever seen, a reflection on the Judges who gave him his top awards and the state of Judging in the UK these days. All Championship show Judges with appointments in the following year should be given intensive training in the GSD standard and relative severity of faults. Such training to be provided in the year prior to the year they have a Judging appointment and such a scheme to be mandatory, ongoing and linked with a Judging Assessment Scheme.