This is a placeholder text
Group text
German Shepherd Dog - Male
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry
Sire Born: 12. May 2001
UK AB01894101 (KCSB 1975CN)
Hip: 5.5.=10 - Elbows: Not known
Breed report
No breed report has been submitted
Linebreeding
Pedigree
Gayville's Fanto1999EKC Z 3419301Z03 HD-SV: HD a-Ausland (a6) BVA 7/5 = 12 Sire | CH (UK) Gayville's Nilo1993UK KC U0019402U01 (KCSB 2065CF) HD- Sire | UK& EIRE V1 CH (INT) Rosehurst Chris1986KCSB 2080BW HD-BVA=6 3:3 Sire |
CH (UK) Gayville's Xera1990UK KC R1547001R02 HD-SV: HD a-normal (a1) Dam | ||
Gayville's Zandra1997EKC HD-SV: HD a-Ausland (a6) Dam | SCHH3VA2 Jango vom Fürstenberg SCHH31994SZ 1896845 HD-SV: HD a-normal (a1) Sire | |
Quera von der Michaelswiese1996SZ 1961881 HD-normal Dam | ||
V Starhope China Rose1998UK Y4060703Y04 HD- Dam | Calagran Casey1995V2492702 HD- Sire | 3 RES CC V (UK) Caresa Classic CrusaderHD- Sire |
Calagran Yasmin1993UK T2477408 HD- Dam | ||
Starhope Make Believe1992KCSB 1080CF HD- Dam | UK.CH. EX.1 Bedwins Siegaro1991KCSB 0880CD (EKC S73955) HD-SV 'a'-normal, BVA 6/0 = 6 Sire | |
Starhope Palme1988UK HD- Dam |
User comments
This is a dog pedigree, used by breeders and breed enthusiasts to see the ancestry and line-breeding of that individual dog. The pedigree page also contains links to the dogs siblings and progeny (if any exist). For dog owners with purebred dogs this is an excellent resource to study their dog's lineage.
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 09:44 pm
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by spectator on 15 December 2005 - 21:12
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 06:04 pm
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by Pioneer on 15 December 2005 - 18:12
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:30 pm
Best Wishes, Kas
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by kas on 15 December 2005 - 12:12
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 02:36 pm
HE HAS BEEN STALKING ME (DAVID PAYNE-VIDEX GSD) FOR 3+ YEARS.
MARTIN COTTER HAS MANY PSEUDONYMS ON THIS 'FORUM' INCLUDING 'BONNIEDOON' - 'SPECTATOR' - 'WHISPERER' - 'OLDDOG' - 'PATRISHAP' - 'TANGO' AND MANY MORE.
MARTIN COTTER HAS BEEN BANNED FROM MANY OTHER GSD FORUMS AROUND THE WORLD INCLUDING AUS YAHOO & THE IRELAND GSD FORUM.
HE ATTACKS ME, MY FAMILY, FRIENDS AND MY DOGS. HE HAS AN EVIL OBSESSION WITH ME CLEARLY BORN OUT OF ENVY, JEALOUSY AND AN OVERWHELMING DESIRE FOR PERSONAL NOTORIETY.
THIS PATHETICALLY INSANE MAN HAS NOW RENDERED THIS FORUM A 'NO GO' AREA ON THE INTERNET. IT IS VERY UNFORTUNATE THAT SUCH A VALUABLE AND ENJOYABLE DATABASE FOR THE GSD IS ALLOWED TO BE ABUSED BY ANONYMOUS 'INTERNET STALKERS'
I REGRET THAT ANY RESPECTFUL GSD ENTHUSIAST IS COMPLETELY ALIENATED FROM THIS SITE.
UNTIL EFFECTIVE CONTROLS ARE IN PLACE TO STOP THE ACTIVITIES OF 'MARTIN COTTER' AND HIS MANY ALIAS'S - IT IS BEST TO AVOID THIS 'FORUM'.
MARTIN COTTER IS A "CYBER-STALKER"
HE HAS BEEN STALKING ME (DAVID PAYNE-VIDEX GSD) FOR 3+ YEARS.
MARTIN COTTER HAS MANY PSEUDONYMS ON THIS 'FORUM' INCLUDING 'BONNIEDOON' - 'SPECTATOR' - 'WHISPERER' - 'OLDDOG' - 'PATRISHAP' - 'TANGO' AND MANY MORE.
MARTIN COTTER HAS BEEN BANNED FROM MANY OTHER GSD FORUMS AROUND THE WORLD INCLUDING AUS YAHOO & THE IRELAND GSD FORUM.
HE ATTACKS ME, MY FAMILY, FRIENDS AND MY DOGS. HE HAS AN EVIL OBSESSION WITH ME CLEARLY BORN OUT OF ENVY, JEALOUSY AND AN OVERWHELMING DESIRE FOR PERSONAL NOTORIETY.
THIS PATHETICALLY INSANE MAN HAS NOW RENDERED THIS FORUM A 'NO GO' AREA ON THE INTERNET. IT IS VERY UNFORTUNATE THAT SUCH A VALUABLE AND ENJOYABLE DATABASE FOR THE GSD IS ALLOWED TO BE ABUSED BY ANONYMOUS 'INTERNET STALKERS'
I REGRET THAT ANY RESPECTFUL GSD ENTHUSIAST IS COMPLETELY ALIENATED FROM THIS SITE.
UNTIL EFFECTIVE CONTROLS ARE IN PLACE TO STOP THE ACTIVITIES OF 'MARTIN COTTER' AND HIS MANY ALIAS'S - IT IS BEST TO AVOID THIS 'FORUM'.
MARTIN COTTER IS A "CYBER-STALKER"
HE HAS BEEN STALKING ME (DAVID PAYNE-VIDEX GSD) FOR 3+ YEARS.
MARTIN COTTER HAS MANY PSEUDONYMS ON THIS 'FORUM' INCLUDING 'BONNIEDOON' - 'SPECTATOR' - 'WHISPERER' - 'OLDDOG' - 'PATRISHAP' - 'TANGO' AND MANY MORE.
MARTIN COTTER HAS BEEN BANNED FROM MANY OTHER GSD FORUMS AROUND THE WORLD INCLUDING AUS YAHOO & THE IRELAND GSD FORUM.
HE ATTACKS ME, MY FAMILY, FRIENDS AND MY DOGS. HE HAS AN EVIL OBSESSION WITH ME CLEARLY BORN OUT OF ENVY, JEALOUSY AND AN OVERWHELMING DESIRE FOR PERSONAL NOTORIETY.
THIS PATHETICALLY INSANE MAN HAS NOW RENDERED THIS FORUM A 'NO GO' AREA ON THE INTERNET. IT IS VERY UNFORTUNATE THAT SUCH A VALUABLE AND ENJOYABLE DATABASE FOR THE GSD IS ALLOWED TO BE ABUSED BY ANONYMOUS 'INTERNET STALKERS'
I REGRET THAT ANY RESPECTFUL GSD ENTHUSIAST IS COMPLETELY ALIENATED FROM THIS SITE.
UNTIL EFFECTIVE CONTROLS ARE IN PLACE TO STOP THE ACTIVITIES OF 'MARTIN COTTER' AND HIS MANY ALIAS'S - IT IS BEST TO AVOID THIS 'FORUM'.
MARTIN COTTER IS A "CYBER-STALKER"
HE HAS BEEN STALKING ME (DAVID PAYNE-VIDEX GSD) FOR 3+ YEARS.
MARTIN COTTER HAS MANY PSEUDONYMS ON THIS 'FORUM' INCLUDING 'BONNIEDOON' - 'SPECTATOR' - 'WHISPERER' - 'OLDDOG' - 'PATRISHAP' - 'TANGO' AND MANY MORE.
MARTIN COTTER HAS BEEN BANNED FROM MANY OTHER GSD FORUMS AROUND THE WORLD INCLUDING AUS YAHOO & THE IRELAND GSD FORUM.
HE ATTACKS ME, MY FAMILY, FRIENDS AND MY DOGS. HE HAS AN EVIL OBSESSION WITH ME CLEARLY BORN OUT OF ENVY, JEALOUSY AND AN OVERWHELMING DESIRE FOR PERSONAL NOTORIETY.
THIS PATHETICALLY INSANE MAN HAS NOW RENDERED THIS FORUM A 'NO GO' AREA ON THE INTERNET. IT IS VERY UNFORTUNATE THAT SUCH A VALUABLE AND ENJOYABLE DATABASE FOR THE GSD IS ALLOWED TO BE ABUSED BY ANONYMOUS 'INTERNET STALKERS'
I REGRET THAT ANY RESPECTFUL GSD ENTHUSIAST IS COMPLETELY ALIENATED FROM THIS SITE.
UNTIL EFFECTIVE CONTROLS ARE IN PLACE TO STOP THE ACTIVITIES OF 'MARTIN COTTER' AND HIS MANY ALIAS'S - IT IS BEST TO AVOID THIS 'FORUM'.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by Videx on 14 December 2005 - 14:12
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:25 pm
I must have mislaid my invite, never mind.
I hope you all have a very enjoyable party, and I feel sure I will not even be mentioned, or missed.
CONGRATULTIONS
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 15 October 2004 - 22:10
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:07 pm
Cubillas
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by Cubillas on 15 October 2004 - 22:10
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 07:01 pm
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by Heather on 15 October 2004 - 19:10
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 06:42 pm
Such suggestions are immature and are used to avoid a meaningful response.
Kas:
It is clear to satify you, and maybe others, that I should have expanded my very first comment thus:
In what is an otherwise excellent male, and if my memory serves me correctly, he is the most unsound (rear hocks) Champion in the United Kingdom I have ever seen, a reflection on the Judges who gave him his top awards and the state of Judging in the UK these days. All Championship show Judges with appointments in the following year should be given intensive training in the GSD standard and relative severity of faults. Such training to be provided in the year prior to the year they have a Judging appointment and such a scheme to be mandatory, ongoing and linked with a Judging Assessment Scheme.
THE END
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 15 October 2004 - 18:10
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 05:19 pm
SOLO - Your decision to ignore my question of putting your money where your mouth is Re: the 20km gait, did not go un-noticed.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by kas on 15 October 2004 - 17:10
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 05:06 pm
Jozolli : From what you write you speak much sence, I can see it, others can see it. I dont know who you are, nor do I wish to as who you are is irrelevent, what you say speaks for itself.
Solo : Do you ever fully read and/or comprehend what anybody writes? My answer to that would have to be NO. Why? Because if you had accurately read and fully understood my last comments, you would realise the impossibility of this task. However just for YOUR BENEFIT I will re-emphasise what I said in more simple terms for you to understand:-
I am of the opinion that NAMING an animal in a Negative manner i.e. Highlighting only its faults, is destructive to the breed. Therefore in order for me to give a fair & positive assessment of any unsound champion I would have to give a more comprehensive critique of the animal & it's performance in relation to those other animals he/she was in competition with on the day. Now do you understand?
Needless to say, I gave my opinion on Chivalry after been present at the Show last Sunday. I watched and appraised the animals competing with my own eyes. Unlike you who remained at home to attend your dogs. I leave it up to the rest of the readers who was in the best position to judge!
And now, as I am in agreement with the sentiments expressed by Hirtenhaus I believe this should be my last response on the subject.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by kas on 15 October 2004 - 17:10
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 03:53 pm
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by hirtenhaus on 15 October 2004 - 15:10
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 03:28 pm
And my pointing out the quality of judges Chivalry has won under highlights how well the dog is doing - it does not cast aspersions on judges in this country.
I compared Varus only to other Videx dogs. Yes he is a good dog and I like him, but, like any of the top males, he is beatable, dependant on the judges preference, the opposition and his condition and performance.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by JOZOLLI on 15 October 2004 - 15:10
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 03:24 pm
you stated:Another show you were not at.
NO - I was at the Sieger Show
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 15 October 2004 - 15:10
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 03:20 pm
Jozolli: you couldn't have highlighted what GSD JUDGES CAN AND WILL DO in OUR GSD SHOW SCENE:
YOUR WORDS
"Further to this, your current dog is, in my opinion, the best Videx male I have seen since Yasso, probably better and he stands to suffer from your behaviour. Sad really."
I REPEAT YOUR WORDS
"and he stands to suffer from your behaviour."
GSD JUDGE CONTROL = SHUT UP OR ELSE
my answer - NOT ON YOUR LIFE
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 15 October 2004 - 15:10
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 02:56 pm
I have no doubt your experience could have been put to good use if you could only find a way to be constructive rather than destructive.
Further to this, your current dog is, in my opinion, the best Videx male I have seen since Yasso, probably better and he stands to suffer from your behaviour. Sad really.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by JOZOLLI on 15 October 2004 - 14:10
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 02:08 pm
People will judge this dog themselves, like the SV judges, the UK breed assesors and the others who have placed him so highly.
The sooner the less enlightened users of this site realise that you have no credibility left in the UK and are on an unrestricted assault of every top animal in the country (which has already resulted in your apologies to judges and owners alike)- the better.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by JOZOLLI on 15 October 2004 - 14:10
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:05 pm
As for naming other unsound UK Champions: - As previously stated; It is not my policy to name other dog/s on a purely critical manner just to prove a point, to do so, without mentioning the qualities it had to offer especially in relation to the other animals competing against it at the time would serve no purpose except one, Negativity! Not to mention at the same time do an injustice to the dog/s and the judges who promoted them.
For example;- When writing a critique on a dog what do you think people would say about the judge who only mentioned soundness(or the lack of it)?. Would you, or anyone else believe that judge knew what they were doing? Would anyone be able to invisage what the dog looked like?. What Type it was? What colour/coat, proportions, angles it had? Did it have all it's teeth, eyes light or dark, ears down or erect? Was it gait fluent, far reaching, powerful drive or did it amble, short step, move overbuilt, short croup......NEED I GO ON?
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by kas on 15 October 2004 - 12:10
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 01:44 am
This is the CRUX of the issue, lets STICK to it.
Point of information:
During the AD test, 20 km gaiting, the dogs physical condition, ESPECIALLY HIS PADS, are examined at stages during the test. With his unsoundness, and peculiar 'shuffle' Chivalry's pads would be bleeding almost certainly after the first 7 kms, and most definitely after 14 kms, and he would be stopped from continuing.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 15 October 2004 - 01:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:05 pm
If I were now to say Scrappy match but great result, would you then deduce that I am could not be Scottish?
Why does it matter so much who I am? If I be male or female, Scottish, English, Welsh or Irish, rich or poor, black or white, Catholic or Prodestant, gay or hetrosexual? Prey tell, why does any of that really matter? Surely what is important is the value expressed in that opinion, not their Sex, Nationality, Colour, Creed or Persuation.
Sir, the real sadness is that you are capable of making some very necessary points but unfortunately they are lost through your inability to stop yourself from keeping personalities out of the equation.
One thing to be said for annonimity is that it stops Constructive Critisms from becoming personnal slanging matches. Perhaps you should equip yourself with a psuedo name and try it sometime. Though I suspect it wouldnt be long before everyone guessed who you were because of your inability to refrain from promoting your own dogs whilst insulting others.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by kas on 13 October 2004 - 23:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 09:25 pm
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by JOZOLLI on 13 October 2004 - 21:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 09:17 pm
I would have really liked Zidan to have won the Best of Breed at the SKC, I feel sure he would have done very well in the Group, etc.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 13 October 2004 - 21:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 09:06 pm
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by JOZOLLI on 13 October 2004 - 21:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 09:04 pm
wrote:
"He is not rushed from the car straight into the ring and back into the car again as soon as the class is over like so many others I could mention."
Oh!! I would love to hear just one name from you, guess which one????????????
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 13 October 2004 - 21:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 09:00 pm
Hello Kevin
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 13 October 2004 - 21:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 04:17 pm
If people dont want to listen in the first place they are even less likely to listen the second time around. Some never learn this lesson.
As for being Frustrated at the annonimity of other subscribers? Not I. It does not bother me if the person wishes to remain annonymous and from what I have read the only person it does seem to bother is you.
It is the validity of their comments which matter and it is that which interests me the most, not their identities. I have enough confidence in my ability to assess the quality of knowledge and common sence expressed by the writings of others whithout having to know who they are.
Over the centuries there have been many authors who write under assumed names, some to escape bigotry, some to escape fame. Even those who have written books in their real name have also written under a pen name. It didnt make what they wrote less valid and providing it maintained a standard it was still read and acclaimed.
If it helps you any, I will tell you I am not a laywer, neither would I profess to be one, anymore than I would profess to being anything other than what I am. A nobody? Well in your eyes it seems I am and if that's your opinion thats cool, you are entitled to it just as every other individual reading this is entitled to theirs.
Though perhaps I must confess to feeling silently flattered that you should think my writings be such that they could possibly be attributed to such a learned profession as a laywer! Perhaps, I missed my vocation?
Anyway, must dash now because I have much more to do in order to get finished in time to watch the footie tonight.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by kas on 13 October 2004 - 16:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 01:46 pm
sounds good - but it's a load of bullshit.
You can say anything you think of, but how do I know, or anyone else know that its true. You may claim to be a Lawyer, many do on this sight, anonymously of course, they think it gives them esteem amongst the others, they claim to be doctors, they claim all kinds of things, ALL ANONYMOUSLY.
It's meaningless, it's bullshit, it's poppycock.
I do not conform, so what?
It doesn't make me a bad person!
It doesn't entitle people to make scurrilous comments about me!
Just imagine if I was ANONYMOUS on this site, how would you, any of you word your replies?
I GUARANTEE YOU WOULD BE BLOODY FRUSTRATED.
I am used to it, indeed I can say anything to you or about you etc, because you are nobody.
There is something rotten about comments coming from anonymous people.
You know it and I know it, indeed most people know it.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 13 October 2004 - 13:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 01:43 pm
You can say anything you think of, but how do I know, or anyone else know that its true. You may clainm to be a Lawyer, many do on this sight, anonymously of course, they think it gives them esteem amongst the others, they clainm to be doctors, they clainm all kinds of things, ALL ANONYMOUSLY.
It's meaningless, it's bullshit, it's poppycock.
I do not conform, so what?
It doesn't make me a bad person!
It doesn't entitle people to make scurrilous comments about me!
Just imagine if I was ANONYMOUS on this site, how would you, any of you worded your replies?
I GUARANTEE YOU WOULD BE BLOODY FRUSTRATED.
I am used to it, indeed I can say anything to you about you etc, because you are nobody.
There is something rotten about comments coming from anonymous people.
You know it and I know it, indeed most people know it.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 13 October 2004 - 13:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 01:26 pm
I have no need to hide, but neither do I seek nor need to seek the 'Pats on the back' I know I would be receiving from the majority of readers of this site, if I was not to remain annonymous. Unlike you I am confident in myself, my dogs and my life. I do not feel the need to constantly Praise myself or my dogs, they regulary speak for themselves, in the ring. I keep everything I say or do in perspective. I am aware of my own skills and limitations and YES, unlike you I am capable of admitting I have limitations and that I am not always right or perfect. Furthermore, unlike you I love the breed more than my own ego and despise those who do it damage by foolishly thinking THEY are bigger than the breed itself.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by kas on 13 October 2004 - 13:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 01:17 pm
Anyone who can make a digital video of Chivalry when moving away and around please send a copy to me by email - be sure he is walking normally when moving away - not at a fast pace, or slowly.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 13 October 2004 - 13:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 01:16 pm
The GANG is gathering to attack.
click on the names of the people posting their comments, manyhave joined in the last day or two, ALL CONNECTIONS WITH THIS DOG NO DOUBT.
NOTE ALSO - ALL ANONYMOUS COWARDS.
I will tell you why they are anonymous, it is very simple.
THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE - maybe its a clique
Come on, bring them out, everyone welcome, I am big enough, bold enough, and honest enough for the lot of you.
I actually enjoy a battle, your opposition is pathetic.
I hear no one in Scotland can make even the smallest criticism of the agressive male that resides there, for fear of the wrath of GANGS like you lot.
Welcome to David Payne - your nightmare.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 13 October 2004 - 13:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 01:14 pm
"The most unsound (rear hocks)Champion in the United Kingdom I have ever seen"
I stand by this statement
There has to be checks and balances in our sport in order to maintain the highest standards possible. One of those checks is being able to make a valid and honest comment when you think it necessary.
Many years ago I watched several YUKKA ALSATION Championship Shows, CC winners regularly had missing teeth and you could see the gaps, and in one case I remember 4 missing teeth. Many had obvious bad temperaments, there were also many other serious faults overlooked.
When I commented on these faults (yes, I have always expressed my opinion without fear or favour) I got replies like "Missing teeth isn't a problem, a dog can still eat and bite with several missing teeth" and "Alsatians are supposed to be cautious with strangers".
Such drivel was stated very clearly and confidently, and in a matter of fact way.
I feel that these types of people have invaded the GERMANIC fraternity, and brought their lower standards into our sport. I call them "GERMANIC YUKKAS"
WE HAVE TO WORK HARD AND STAND UP FOR THE HIGHEST STANDARDS IN OUR BREED.
Thank god the WUSV system is coming to the United Kingdom. This could be our breeds saviour in these Islands, but only if we work hard to maintain the highest standards.
There should be no tolerance of "GERMANIC YUKKAS" - watch out for them.
PS opening up a gap during gaiting is not unusual for the dog at the front of the class (Judges please note)
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 13 October 2004 - 13:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 01:12 pm
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 13 October 2004 - 13:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 01:01 pm
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by JOZOLLI on 13 October 2004 - 13:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:56 pm
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 13 October 2004 - 12:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:55 pm
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 13 October 2004 - 12:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:54 pm
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 13 October 2004 - 12:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:48 pm
"PAYNE"
PS. Nothing to do with this dog and not even from Scotland.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by BFTD on 13 October 2004 - 12:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:44 pm
If people are compelled to register in response to your, or anyone elses comments about a popular dog why should that surprise you.
Now you want to move on to another male. Fire away and lets see who you mean.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by JOZOLLI on 13 October 2004 - 12:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:24 pm
click on the names of the people posting their comments, manyhave joined in the last day or two, ALL CONNECTIONS WITH THIS DOG NO DOUBT.
NOTE ALSO - ALL ANONYMOUS COWARDS.
I will tell you why they are anonymous, it is very simple.
THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE
Come on, bring them out, everyone welcome, I am big enough, bold enough, and honest enough for the lot of you.
I actually enjoy a battle, your opposition is pathetic.
I hear no one in Scotland can make even the smallest criticism of the agressive male that resides there, for fear of the wrath of GANGS like you lot.
Welcome to David Payne - your nightmare.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 13 October 2004 - 12:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:13 pm
I stand by this statement
There has to be checks and balances in our sport in order to maintain the highest standards possible. One of those checks is being able to make a valid and honest comment when you think it necessary.
Many years ago I watched several YUKKA ALSATION Championship Shows, CC winners regularly had missing teeth and you could see the gaps, and in one case I remember 4 missing teeth. Many had obvious bad temperaments, there were also many other serious faults overlooked.
When I commented on these faults (yes, I have always expressed my opinion without fear or favour) I got replies like "Missing teeth isn't a problem, a dog can still eat and bite with several missing teeth" and "Alsatians are supposed to be cautious with strangers".
Such drivel was stated very clearly and confidently, and in a matter of fact way.
I feel that these types of people have invaded the GERMANIC fraternity, and brought their lower standards into our sport. I call them "GERMANIC YUKKAS"
WE HAVE TO WORK HARD AND STAND UP FOR THE HIGHEST STANDARDS IN OUR BREED.
Thank god the WUSV system is coming to the United Kingdom. This could be our breeds saviour in these Islands, but only if we work hard to maintain the highest standards.
There should be no tolerance of "GERMANIC YUKKAS" - watch out for them.
PS opening up a gap during gaiting is not unusual for the dog at the front of the class (Judges please note)
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 13 October 2004 - 12:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:12 pm
"The most unsound (rear hocks) Champion in the UK I have ever seen" UNQUOTE.
If this is the case, you Clearly cannot have been around the rings as long as you claim, either that or you have 'selected' sight or a very short memory.
Critism is a necessity and one which all owners and/or breeders should expect and be prepared to accept. BUT (and its a big but)In order for Critism to be valuable & effective it MUST be CONSTRUCTIVE - Sit only Critism down on its own and it will only ever be NEGATIVE not a POSITIVE. And that Sir is where we differ for negativity alone IS and ONLY ever will be DESTRUCTIVE.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by kas on 13 October 2004 - 12:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:55 am
Not having seen this male(Photo only)and if i were to take on board your views one must question the eyesight and integrity of the championship judges who have awarded him top honours obviously ahead of your males.
I have read no adverse comments regarding this male from eminent people within the breed only from your self, who lets face it, your not realy eminent are you, and certainly not in the same league as some breed specilists.
As your comments regarding this animal are quite costic and amateur i would asume therefore you see him as a constant and considerable threat to your own males ?
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by BFTD on 13 October 2004 - 11:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:36 am
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by Big B on 13 October 2004 - 11:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 04:40 am
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by spectator on 13 October 2004 - 04:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 04:17 am
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by Heather on 13 October 2004 - 04:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 02:42 am
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by spectator on 13 October 2004 - 02:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 01:59 am
1) I was looking after our litters and our dogs. Rhoda was out almost 12 hours, far too long to leave puppies.
2) I did NOT want Varus entered at this Show, Rhoda overruled me. I did not want the judges opinion of my dog, and I expected the top awards to go to the dogs that got them, her husband awarded the same dogs the top honours only a few months back. I expected their judging to be consistent.
I WOULD ASK YOU THIS QUESTION:
in your opinion is NO ONE entitled to make a comment on this page (Chivalry comment page) critical of his obvious but unfortunate fault - even those who are not anonymous??????????????
This is a very FUNDAMENTAL question, please answer it.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 13 October 2004 - 01:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 01:45 am
What is a wonderful gift to me is his or her comments about my dogs character - THOUSANDS SAW IMMO IN THE LARGE STADIUM PASS HIS COURAGE TEST IN THE SIEGER 2003,
Everyone who knows IMMO knows he has exceptional character.
VARUS - he has greeted so many around the ring, and many times from within the ring we have lost count.
Zasko SchH3 and several times passed his courage test in a show ring - a fantastic character which his breeding would tell anyone with an ounce pof knowledge.
Darro - a wonderful but somewhat stubborn boy, who also has a super character.
kas you make stupid comments mixed in with some reasonable comments. You are clearly rattled by my opinion, which I am entitled to - but show some balls and add your name or shut up making critical and erroneous comments.
So many around the UK know your talking shit.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 13 October 2004 - 01:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 01:05 am
I answered each of your absurdities - particularly since you mailed me - that is all - and my comments were very much in regard to Chivalry.
Thanks heavens for Kas... though stand by for Solo's useful stats on when you joined etc.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by JOZOLLI on 13 October 2004 - 01:10
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:16 am
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by kas on 13 October 2004 - 00:10
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:29 pm
There were other quality dogs in the show notably the one directly behind this animal called Tolberg Amabassador at Geeswood (I don't how the lines) and Che v. Ochsentor (Rio and Nikita).
It was very apparent even for an outsider that certain handlers were being placed, not the dogs they had on their leashes.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by M.Carter on 12 October 2004 - 23:10
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:23 pm
Didnt see you doing that at the show on the 10th. Why was that then?
FEELING ASHAMED? Yes YOU should be.
Chivalry has more Character in his nose than some of the dogs you own and have so 'Confidently' offered at stud!
As for his soundness, at least he has never limped around the ring, neither has he ever stood with 10-2 feet. Or is soundness in your book only applicable to hind action?
What's more everyone can have the pleasure of seeing Chivalry regulary around our ringsides, where he can be approached, stroked, hugged or played with. He is not rushed from the car straight into the ring and back into the car again as soon as the class is over like so many others I could mention.
'CHIVALRY' - A very apt name for this lovely dog and a word you would never understand.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by kas on 12 October 2004 - 23:10
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:02 pm
Of course soundness is important but any sensible judge will realise that the most important faults are those which effect the dogs ability to do its job. No doubt Chivalry could be sounder behind, but he is certainly not the cripple Solo tries to make out to be, otherwise he wouldnt have been able to move so 'effortlessly' around the ring and yet open up a gap between him and the dog in second place. The same can be said of his performance in the Challenge, but then as Solo was not present at the show how would he know? Perhaps he should be accusing himself of being ASHAMED to SHOW HIMSELF eh?
In my opinion there is only ONE type a judge worse than someone who 'Fault' judges and that is a judge who fails to penalise a Faulty Character. For this is the ONLY Fault where assessment of the rest of the dog might just as well be rendered irrelevent.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by kas on 12 October 2004 - 23:10
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:56 pm
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 12 October 2004 - 22:10
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:52 pm
You really should read what you write> Your comments on Chivalry's comments page, INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING:
Did anyone actually expect Solo to be positive about a UK male when Varus is competing? Or when Immo et al are standing at stud?
doesnt deserve your acid remarks any more than the others you attack.
IF you are going Solo... why not go with one or two supporters remaining intact? Only the soap opera fans enjoy your comments and petty fights on this exceptional site!
I apologise to the owner of the dog for the slanging match which is now within his comments but it has to be said - I know you have been a champ show judge in the uk (though I doubt you will be again), Im aware of what and WHO you have promoted,
but you continue to offend people and decry their animals with you holier than thou attitude and extreme paranoia.
I had the pleasure of visiting Germany and Holland this weekend and you truly are despised allover by anyone with the good of the breed in mind. Reluctant though I was to agree before - its true - you really do take the biscuit.
Congratulations on achieving this reputation in the breed. I hope the few who still listen to you realise the error of it and that the honest among us manage to difuse some of your ramblings.
How you justify your bullying tactics Solo I do not know. To e-mail me requesting details of my kennel, my dogs so that you can enlighten me about MY reputation? You are ridiculous. My dogs are none of your concern - unless of course you judge them (hardly) or make comment on them on this site (good luck) and my reputation - again none of your concern, and though you are obviously all knowing all seeing all spewing, I do not care a damn what you think of me or my dogs.
No one (youself aside of course oh great oracle) has seen every dog on this site and as such opinions are valuable for those who look for them.
Venom is useful to no-one.
It was another of your postings where you alude to the germans who do not get fixed on a dogs fault(s) but focus on its attributes. You have no intention of this and thats what makes you dispicable.
I am not sure what you're on about now Solo. I thought the subject was Chivalry?
THIS LAST COMMENT FROM YOU REALLY TAKES THE BISCUIT
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 12 October 2004 - 22:10
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:05 pm
zacksmum, never judged, never lectured, never written any articles!
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by zacksmum on 12 October 2004 - 22:10
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 09:26 pm
I will post nothing on this site which I would not say to anyone, and I am most certainly not afraid of you or anyone else.
Speculate on if thats what keeps you occupied but for aid.. I have no connection to the owner of Chivalry - that wouldn't make my comments very honest at all now would it?
Get back to talking about the dogs. (if you must)
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by JOZOLLI on 12 October 2004 - 21:10
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 09:10 pm
Come on lets have alevel playing field, or should I start speculating? Obviously scottish I would think, connected to the owner of Chivalry, well I will keep looking.
In Holland & Germany last weeek-end? Sean is it? or Jo, you are NOT as brave as to STAND UP AND BE COUNTED ARE YOU.
fEELING ASHAMED? YOU SHOULD BE.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 12 October 2004 - 21:10
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 07:29 pm
How you justify your bullying tactics Solo I do not know. To e-mail me requesting details of my kennel, my dogs so that you can enlighten me about MY reputation? You are ridiculous. My dogs are none of your concern - unless of course you judge them (hardly) or make comment on them on this site (good luck) and my reputation - again none of your concern, and though you are obviously all knowing all seeing all spewing, I do not care a damn what you think of me or my dogs.
No one (youself aside of course oh great oracle) has seen every dog on this site and as such opinions are valuable for those who look for them.
Venom is useful to no-one.
It was another of your postings where you alude to the germans who do not get fixed on a dogs fault(s) but focus on its attributes. You have no intention of this and thats what makes you dispicable.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by JOZOLLI on 12 October 2004 - 19:10
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 05:59 pm
There are many reasons why I may not Judge again, not the least that 'most appointments' are organised, and you only have to look at those doing the 'organising' again NOT judging does not bother me. There are all sorts of people in life, one thing I have irrefutable ascertained is shit sticks together.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 12 October 2004 - 17:10
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 05:52 pm
I would love to see hip and back xrays on this animal.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by M.Carter on 12 October 2004 - 17:10
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 04:47 pm
Chivalry is an exceptional example of a GSD male - yes he is very angulated behind but as I have said, he has more endurance than most, has a good hip score and good solid lines behind him, a better nature than most, correct movement, beautiful type, a lovely overline, balanced proportions,a well laid croup of good length, lovely expressive head, etc.
I apologise to the owner of the dog for the slanging match which is now within his comments but it has to be said - I know you have been a champ show judge in the uk (though I doubt you will be again), Im aware of what and WHO you have promoted, and I know how many years you have been involved in the breed, i also know several of your animals and have defended some recent claims surrounding them WHERE THEY WERE INCORRECT, but you continue to offend people and decry their animals with you holier than thou attitude and extreme paranoia.
I had the pleasure of visiting Germany and Holland this weekend and you truly are despised allover by anyone with the good of the breed in mind. Reluctant though I was to agree before - its true - you really do take the biscuit.
Congratulations on achieving this reputation in the breed. I hope the few who still listen to you realise the error of it and that the honest among us manage to difuse some of your ramblings.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by JOZOLLI on 12 October 2004 - 16:10
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 03:42 pm
Let me make it very clear, when I relocate I wil keep my web-site, and many of my dogs, I will continue breeding, and keep myself up to date with the UK GSD Scene. I will keep visiting this web-site and making my own comments, there is no doubt this site will be 'moderated' in some way very soon. In the meantime, get used to it, I am here to stay, and I will continue to refute the right of anyone to criticise anonymously. I will also continue to use any means possible to identify them.
I trust the morons registered on this web-site can fully understand and digest what I have stated here.
David Payne VIDEX GSD - almost 30 years experience in GSD, GSD hampionship Show Judge, Lectured in the UK and overseas on the GSD, and wrote many articles on the GSD, currently residing in the United Kingdom.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 12 October 2004 - 15:10
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 03:17 pm
If judges want to give top awards to such a dog, they can, buy others can equally point out the seriousness of this fault. If breeders choose to use a dog with this SERIOUS fault it can be no surprise, many used an Import several years ago which was much worse. THIS DOES NOT MAKE THIS FAULT LESS SERIOUS.
You have also indicated to me that even with a concentrated and planned training schedule, the problem will not correct itself.
I have only one aim and that is to debate the issues related to our breed which need attention. I am sure many will not like attention being drawn to many of this issue. I am equally sure my dogs will frequently pay the price for my audacity in the show ring, and I will pay the price of vicious and scurrilous anonymous attacks. But hey, it will not stop me, life is too short to care, I am almost 60 years old, grossly over-weight and have a chronic blood pressure problem. I am very contented, I enjoy my dogs, my web-site, my trips to Europe and India, and anywhere else I wish to visit. I have all the friends I want, and many acquaintances.
I will stick with REALITY and HONESTY, its much more challenging, especially these days. If so called friends or supporters wish me to compromise on this, I do not want them.
As for 'soap opera' admirers - that's a hell of a lot of ordinary honest people you are referring to.
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 12 October 2004 - 15:10
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 02:54 pm
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by zacksmum on 12 October 2004 - 14:10
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 01:58 pm
But you obviously know all about males passing.... or failing their koerung. ;-)
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by JOZOLLI on 12 October 2004 - 13:10
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 01:07 pm
This is why the AD test exists in the German system, a dog trots for 20 km, which is approx 14 miles to obtain the AD pass, which is REQUIRED to be able to go on and gain a Schutzhund and Koerung pas for breeding qualification.
It is exactly the right time to raise and re-enforce this issue when an unsound dog gains his title, as it highlights the human failure to maintain perspective regarding serous faults. Of course I find it ridiculous to have Varus placed behind such a dog, many people around the ring would also find it ridiculous, but of course they may want to stay silent so as not to reduce their future prospects in the show ring.
Clearly training for existing Championship Judges along with a Judges assessment scheme is required in the UK
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 12 October 2004 - 13:10
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:55 am
To Solo - All dogs have faults - and we are particularly critical of males in the uk, but this dog has FAR too many positive attributes to be overlooked. Most notably he is a superb mover - not a 'runner' like so many of the inadequately equiped males of today and as such he has won under british and international judges consistantly, and now is producing a beautiful type in his puppies. Time will tell of course, but Chivalry (who is the UKs current top winning male) doesnt deserve your acid remarks any more than the others you attack.
IF you are going Solo... why not go with one or two supporters remaining intact? Only the soap opera fans enjoy your comments and petty fights on this exceptional site!
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by JOZOLLI on 12 October 2004 - 11:10
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 03:48 am
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by spectator on 12 October 2004 - 03:10
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 03:08 am
CH (UK) Starhope's Chivalry by solo on 12 October 2004 - 03:10