Sport vs Breed worthiness Test - Page 1

Since this side of the board is for Serious debate and consideration let me pose this question. 

What in the current form of the Schutzhund trial do you feel taxes the dogs abality to still consider it a Breed Worthiness test and if not what changes should be made to return it to such.

I don,t want this to be a "my dog is tuffer then your dog" debate but a serious thought exchange to the test.  

Bob, I don't know the answer to your question, but my thoughts on Schutzhund performance for breed suitability are: Protection "tests" the dog's courage, ability to control the protective/possessive/aggressive instincts (along with proper training), and ability to act without command (the escape), almost reason if you will. The obedience portion to me not only exhibits control and guideability, but also the desire to please the handler. Of course method and manner of training cannot be overstated, but I think all of the above should be considered in breedworthiness. Am I understanding your topic correctly? Theresa

I do think judging should be more uniform across the board. It is amazing to me, the difference between one SchI dog and another SchI dog in regards to training. Theresa

I think…..it depends. It depends on the level the dog is trialed at. It depends on the training methods used. And it depends on the breeder.

There is a huge difference between packing your dog in the car and taking him to his home field and helper to trial and going to a trial in a stadium halfway around the world. The cumulative stress on the dog doing the latter is huge and how the dog reacts to that stress speaks volumes.

I think differences in training also come into play. A dog that gets 80pts under an unfair, heavy handed, handler with bad timing, is a different animal than the dog that gets 80pts with a good indusive handler.

The ability to read a dog is the most important thing of all. If a breeder is good they can see much more than a breeder with less “dog sense”. Some breeders can only see titles and scores and are unable to really see what the dog is. So I think schutzhund can help breeders to make informed breeding choices if they know what they are doing.

all three phases test the dog to see its ability for trainability, problem solving, drive for work, and willingness to work for its handler, and how the dog deals with stress and pressure. As far as the perfect 300 point dog being the best gsd is not what the breed is completely about as far as the best dog. After all everybody has there own idea for the ideal dog.

I,m not speaking of points forget the points I,ve seen dogs score amazingly high points that should never be breed. I,m talking about abality to handle stress and preform under pressure well. Trainabalty yes it shows that,problem solving I see none of that,Drive for work very few show nothing more then high prey drives,willingness to work for the handler yes,  but again your talking qualities that are only good for the sport not a true test for breed worthiness.

Bob, if I were to change I would make the Sch1 an undirected search like the one in Mondio and french ring. I would also like to see some type of agility and jumping.

I agree not all high scoring dogs should be bred! The problem solving is mostly in the tracking phase the dog is 33 feet out from the handler and has to work on its own and there are always differnt sents and enviorment changes such as vegitaton, weather, that the dog has to work through on its own.

Bullfrog:

I,ll give you that in tracking you are correct.


 Chris:
 
Jumping and some agality was in the test years ago vertical walls and pallicades(may not be the proper term) I did like the attack on the handler out of the blind which was taken out of the 1 but it needed to be done properly from what I am told the helper should come from the blind focused on the attack on the handler and the dog would have to intervene with storng gripping and fighting but I was told too many helpers immedatly focused on the dog which made it easier for the dog to react in defense. But i agree this is what I,m talking about returning the test to a breed worthiness test instead of a pretty trophy on the wall and a hifgh points score book.

In my opinion the test should show more of the dogs charcter and strength.