Inbreeding/Line Breeding - Page 1

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GSDvonJägersHouse

by GSDvonJägersHouse on 08 July 2024 - 11:07

Can you/should you take a Father to a Daughter when inbreeding? Has anyone ever gone through this & seen the pros/cons of the offspring? Health problems?

What’s the best combination/quickest way of line breeding when trying to achieve the father’s traits?

alexnds05

by alexnds05 on 12 July 2024 - 09:07

Hello Friend,

This inbreeding would produce an outcome that is 75% the sire (because he is 50% the father of the litter and 25% as the grandfather of the litter). The Coefficient of inbreeding will be 25%. Super, super high and risky! If you want to preserve this dog's genetics and pass on his traits, there are two possible approaches that will involve less risk. The first approach is the half sibling approach. Mate him to two completely un-related females, but whose temperament and structure compliments him. Take a male puppy from Female-A and breed him to his half sister, from Female-B. This will produce a puppy that is 50% the sire, as opposed to 75%. But the COI drops from 25% to 12.5% and you risk is reduced. You need to go to embarkvet.com and order a test kit and test for genetic diseases first and foremost prior to doing any of this. You don't want to double up on any genetic diseases, so be sure none of the pups are carriers for Degenerative Myelopathy or epilepsy or any other disease, PRIOR to breeding.

 

The second approach is what is called a 2-3 line breeding. Take an adult daughter of this male, and breed her to a completely unrelated dog, of good character and likewise, genetically tested for no diseases. The pups that come out are therefore grand-kids of your dog, the original sire. Take the original sire, and breed him to a different mother dog, and keep a son from this breeding: the very best son, not just any son. Then, take the son of this stud dog and mate him to a grand-daughter of this stud dog, from the other daughter he has from the other female. In other words, via Female-A, you produced a son. Via Female-B you produced another son or daugther. Via the son or daugther, get a grandkid of the original dog out of them. So from female-B, your goal was to get a grandkid of the original dog, not a kid of the original dog.  From this son, or daugther get a grandkid out of him, of the original sire. Then take the grandchild on one side, to a child on the other side. To be clear: From Female-A, you produced a child of your male.  From Female-B, you produced a grandchild.  So it's a two step process, a child, followed by a grandchild, from Female-B.

This will produce a dog that is 37.5% the original sire and the coefficient of inbreeding drops to 9.63% from 12.5%. This is known as Bracket's formula: "Let the sire, of the sire, be the grandsire of the dam". If you couldn't follow this, the video and the URL explains it.

The quickest is not the safest. That's why I recommend an approach that will preserve most of the traits of the original dog, but reduce the odds for disease.

https://breedingbetterdogs.com/article/brackets-formula



by duke1965 on 13 July 2024 - 06:07

there is NO secret formula, you allways would have to look at the individual dogs you use, the percentages mentioned by previous poster are theoretical, so I generally agree with the post,but must say its not functional, as every dog from every combination is different geneticly, some dogs tightly linebred can have less actual genes from desired ancester than others less closely linebred on said dog.

I did strong linebreeding and would say best oucome for me was half brother halfsister , and got good results on pairing ofspring of full littermates, so breed a daughter of the desired male, to a son of his sister or brother, again, the dogs should be selected for this, line and inbreeding based on names on paper only is worthless

GSDvonJägersHouse

by GSDvonJägersHouse on 14 July 2024 - 11:07

@alexnds05 & @duke1965 thank you!

@alexnds05
Now if I do the half brother, half sister pairing & take the very best female from that offspring. Can I breed the female BACK to the original Sire? If I did so what would my percentages/risks look like?

Based off the video link, he said doing the half brother / half sister didn’t produce the best offspring… thoughts?

Now using the Brackets formula, if I were to take the granddaughter to the son of the original sire. They produced offspring. I kept the very best FEMALE from this breeding. Then could I take her back to the original Sire? Once again what do the percentages look like/risks?





 


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