Can two LONG COAT's produce short coat puppies - Page 1

If two Long coats are mated , both of which have short coat parents ( the parents obviously carry the recessive gene) would they ever produce short coats. Has anyone experienced this before? If not
is it just because Long coat genes are more 'dominant' than short coats? I dont breed Long coats , however
I had my 1st long coat Male from by bitch and was just wondering. I find this very facinating.....

Anything can happen, Ive heard of it ( two long coats producing short coats) but never seen it. 

Yes they can produce short coat but at theory will be little percent,then a puppy from litter with both parents long coat she will produce at big percent long coat puppies even if the puppy is short coat (expect if the father isn't carrier for long coat).all these depends form parents and ancestors how many are carrier to gene for long coat

You have to remember that most descriptions of "what to expect from genetics" are based in mathematical calculation of average results - and not the game of chance that is real life - so if the odds are lower on something happening in any one [real] litter, that does not mean that it never happens. (Apart from in matters of the 'sex-linked' genes.)  If you want an 'old' book to read up on canine genetics, go for one by Dr Malcolm Willis, who actually was a Geneticist by profession, as well as a GSD breeder/Judge. Even in the early days he used to point this out.

Two standard coated parents both carrying a gene for long coats can still produce a long coated puppy (or 2, or 6 !) but MOST of the pups they throw (over the course of more than one repeat litter) will look like the parents, i.e. short coats.

Two long coated parents still almost always carry genetic material for shorter coats within their DNA, so in those too a short (Standard) coat* can appear occasionally. Science understands the complexity of alleles, their positions, genetic "on/off" switching, etc, much more now than when the area of Genetics was first discovered; and the gene-mapping that has happened over the decades since has shown us that it is a far more complicated topic than at first described. If both dog and bitch are similar in their genetic make-up - i.e. both long or short coated, but both carrying genes for the other type of coat - this makes the chance appearence of the opposite sort of coat even more likely, as I understand this.

*The variation in lengths of GSD coats is also such that your 'short coated' puppy may still grow up to be a much hairier version than most Standard coated puppies are, while still carrying genetics for both possibilities in its own genetic make-up.

Thanks for your input. Would be great if there are breeders would have actually bred short coats from 2 Long coat parents.

Waleed, yes, I too think that would be very interesting, especially if it was someone who'd had the opportunity to follow the pup through into adulthood, and maybe breeding ! But the numbers are likely to be low, and this board isn't as busy as it used to be - so I hope you get such a reply, but don't hold your breath !

FWIW.. Like Hundmutter said... Genetics is mostly a math exercise... I like to think of it as a tisk mitigation tool. Nothing is 100% certain, but it helps to further reduce risk of a situationally undesirable trait cropping up.

Indeed, Charlie. I like the phrase Risk Mitigation Tool (can I nick it ?) - something which many breeders should think more on, in re quite a lot of aspects of hereditary information.

I think there have been a few dogs in the past where this sort of occurance has led to the authenticity of matings being questioned.




PS
[I owe you an e mail - will find time soon if this new bitch of mine lets me pay attention to anything other than her for more than five minutes ...]

I can’t believe some of the answers here. What a mess.

Two LONG coats can ONLY produce LONG coat puppies.

Long coat is recessive.
Stock coat is dominant.

Which means for a dog to BE a long coat it has 2 copies of the gene.

Stock coated dogs are stock coated even if they only have 1 copy of the gene, that’s why they can produce RECESSIVE long coats.

A LONG coated dog, has 2 copies of the recessive gene, meaning they can ONLY provide the long coated gene to their offspring. If the other parent is also long coated, then that’s genetically all that they can produce. Even if they are not heavily coated, if they are genetically long coat bred to another long coat, that is ALL that is produced.

For example. Shelties, Rough Collies, Bearded Collies, Old English Sheepdogs etc. they are all long haired and only continue to produce long haired future generations BECAUSE both parents are Long coated.

Exceptions would be mutations such as hairless.

In German shepherds, possibly. If they each have only one copy of long coat and one copy of short coat, they will appear to be long coat. Two copies of long coat in both parents will never produce short coats. If your single copy parents pass on one copy each of the short coat gene, the puppy will receive two copies of short coat, thus being a short coat. This only applies to German shepherds though, any other breed requires both parents to be short coated or at least have one short coat gene, because they are dominant genes. In German shepherds it is what you call dosage dependant, that is if the dog has no long coat gene they are short coated, if they have one copy they have a longer coat, two copies makes the coat even longer than the long coat of the single copy dog. Then there's afgan hounds that have dominant long coat gene, but that's pretty unique. I've been studying genetics in dog coats for some time now and it's really fascinating what is in the gene codes of the different breeds.