Pedigree help - Should I get this puppy? - Page 1

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by yellow4738 on 13 June 2021 - 20:06

Can anyone give me some guidance on this pedigree, please? (I'm new to this!) I am considering getting a puppy from this dam and am wondering if this would be a good choice. I already don't like that she and some others in her line have not had any health testing, so that has me concerned.

Any advice would be much appreciated! Thanks!

by Diamondgal on 13 June 2021 - 21:06

Okay. I only recognize two studs in the entire pedigree.


Now. Having said that. Lord is a well known working line dog. But he's so far back in the pedigree he, himself, doesn't offer anything to the puppy or her mother. Iltis is lesser known of the two, but I know he is a late bloomer in terms of coloration settling (being he's a black sable).

Now. Here is what the breed report translates as on Iltis: ‎"Medium-sized, medium-strong, particularly intensely pigmented male. Male embossing, normal withers, well-bearing, somewhat short croup, good angulated, correct front. Balanced chest conditions, good gait. TSB pronounced; lets off‎."

Now. Here is the breed report on Lord: "Good medium size, strong, dry, firm, proportions and expression very good. Firm, strong ears, very good carriage. Withers still good, backline slightly drawn upward, croup and forehand good, knee angles slightly open, thigh could be longer. Correct front, good bone and firmness of pasterns. Goes straight, front reach better than rear drive, still good step length. Temperament sure, hardness, courage and fighting instinct pronounced; outs. WA91: normal further development."


by Sunsilver on 13 June 2021 - 23:06

If you go back far enough, the ancestry of this dog is pretty much 100% DDR (East German). There are a number of well known dogs, the most recent being Tino von Felsenschloss, a popular working line stud.

There are also many dogs from Haus Iris and Grafental kennels, very well known and well respected working line kennels.

However, the last few generations have quite a few dogs that haven't been titled in either work or conformation. That makes me wonder what this dog's potential really is.

It may do just fine. Given the dog's very solid ancestry, I'd be willing to give it a try.

by ValK on 14 June 2021 - 00:06

7th generation on both sides has lots of outstanding dogs, which was heavily used to sustain and develop base of GSDs in former DDR.
among them most famous
Golf vom Ritterberg
Mentor vom Haus Iris
Alf vom Kornersee
Don vom Rolandsteich
Held vom Ritterberg.
tracing pedigree one can see, the closer to present days - the more erratic breeding did become. impression arises the breeding's goal not the dogs itself but rather "DDR" tag on them.
full siblings, who was screened, show good and excellent HD.
picture of bitch in question isn't available but pictures of direct siblings... there seems some elements resembling former DDR dogs but they are like half-baked shadow of their distant ancestors. quite depressing.
bottom line is - what for you want to buy the dog?
if for "DDR" tag - yes, you'll have it.
if objective is to have DDR type dog - sorry, you will not have it.


by Hundmutter on 14 June 2021 - 03:06

And how much risk do you want to commit yourself to ? Should these pups turn out to reflect their more distant ancestry, and grow into splendid working / sports animals, their careers could still be cut short if they develop DM, HD or ED or other problems that might have been prevented (or at least spotted as possibilities by puppy buyers) had they been produced from all-health tested stock.

If that happens you are just left with a pet you cannot 'do' any active competition etc with, nor should you breed on from.

And maybe some expensive vet bills too.

We only see the dam's pedigree; she herself has no hip or elbow gradings recorded here.  What about the sire of this litter you are looking at ?  It takes two to tango.


by Rik on 14 June 2021 - 11:06

If you are paying money for what hopefully will be a companion for the next decade or so, get the health certs. especially the basics like HD,ED and DM.

There are reasons the SV mandates HD, ED certs. and they are not pretty.

and even with the certs there can be issues, but I still think they stack the odds in the dogs favor. even if not 100%.



Q Man

by Q Man on 14 June 2021 - 11:06

I agree with most of what has been said by previous posters...But the question of the day is "What Do You Want This Puppy For"? Pet..Personal Protection...Sport...etc?
Hip and Elbow evals give you an idea of what the Sire and Dam are BUT they don't guarantee anything in the puppies...Puppies are a Crap Shoot...You are buying a pedigree...and hope for the best...
I don't remember you saying if you've asked the breeder about any Tests on the Female and/or the Sire...


by yellow4738 on 14 June 2021 - 13:06

Here is the sire of the breeding. Thoughts?


by Hundmutter on 14 June 2021 - 15:06

Well he has a better pedigree Yellow, as far as it goes. If the dog Sergeant is all that is claimed for him, that seems a good choice. And at least they are all hip x rayed - although we see a few a2 s in there. Personally I've always liked the Salztalblick kennel's output - paternal grandfather and sire's Dam tail-female -, but these are modern German multi-purpose dogs, bred to be shown as well as worked; you still haven't answered the q about what sort of dog you are actually looking for, so its hard to know whether that lack of working stock specificity is a help or a hindrance to you ?

by hexe on 15 June 2021 - 03:06

How much experience do you have with European working-line German Shepherd Dogs, yellow?

Asking because these lines generally produce 'a whole lot of dog', which means it can't be raised like a Beagle-cross and left to its own devices for the majority of its education--these dogs need very engaged owners who literally make a plan for the puppy's training and embark on it the minute the puppy belongs to them.

It's not a breeding best-suited for a first time owner of a large breed of dog unless that person has good contacts who have a wealth of experience with the larger working/herding breed dogs under their belt.


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