Do breeders utilise COI when planning matings - Page 2

Pedigree Database

 
Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 30 September 2020 - 12:09

Absolutely! I embark all of my outside stud dogs and use embarks prediction tools with the aim of producing dogs with a COI under 30% I’m happy to share my embark links with an outcross and a line breeding for example!

I would love to see them. I just started using embark for my Champ x Bruna litter and will also use it for Champ x  DeJa.  I went through the database and the COI for Shepherds seems to run right around the 30%. Champ x Brunas COI is 31%. I knew I would have to outcross even without Embark, but it's really fun to use the matchmakers tool and know what you are actually looking at percentage wise.


Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 30 September 2020 - 13:09

ValK - No, of course there is nothing to stop them doing that ! In fact I'd say a majority of serious S/L breeders here in the UK probably have adopted the COI as a useful tool for some years now, thus forming such a group. [Cannot say for sure about our W/L specialists, maybe they mostly do, too.]  But there will always be mavericks; and it looks very much to me (from what people have said here over the years) as though there are huge numbers of breeders in the US who do not talk to each other. Even 'serious' breeders rather than BYB / pet producers.


by xPyrotechnic on 30 September 2020 - 13:09

When i was studying the coi thing 2 days ago they said that the optimal percentage of coi should be between 0-10% anything more is risky. 0-5 is perfect 5-10 is decent.


bladeedge

by bladeedge on 30 September 2020 - 15:09

Hi can anyone explain the meaning of coi. As I'm no a breeder. Also the meaning of hardimanʼs, Wrightʼs thanks

by Rik on 30 September 2020 - 15:09

here is one explanation from the Google.

https://bloodlines.net/highflyer/coefficient.htm

sorry, could not get the link to work live.

 


bladeedge

by bladeedge on 30 September 2020 - 16:09

Thanks rik. I will have a look 👍

by xPyrotechnic on 30 September 2020 - 16:09

This is what i used:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o60k01yscuzvyyd/COI%20Bootcamp%20course%20%28May2019%29.pdf?dl=0

by xPyrotechnic on 30 September 2020 - 17:09

I read in another forum whereby Hans Prager said that using coi will not tell you what gene is dominant or recessive hes got a point so how do you find that gene. If its dominant the gene will be be displayed but if its recessive i guess you would have to use embark right?

by ValK on 01 October 2020 - 00:10

you do not have to hunt for a certain gene. they will manifest itself in specimens. for that one need collect and analyze outcomes of mating and compare it to a parents. you can assess a potency of dogs to pass desirable genes as a dominant to offspring. more offspring from litter have characteristics similar to targeted - the better potency of dogs to recreate itself in own descendants.
main obstacle for accumulating such data is an absence of tight knit cooperation between breeders in commercial environment, where everything is based on individual competitiveness and greed/jealousy.

b.t.w. i believe problem of COI is selfinflicted problem (cause and consequence) due to breeders racing after famous names for use as main point of promo during the sale process, irregardless it is show breeding, sport breeding or western "DDR" breeding.
original DDR system was established with purpose to avoid chaotic breeding which could led to close inbreeding. monitoring and national wide cooperation between different wards allowed to find and introduce new dogs, which kept balance even in isolated limited stock of GSDs like it was back then in DDR.


Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 01 October 2020 - 11:10

It's not about identifying a gene. It's about diversity.

For example, I can use two completely unrelated dogs and still have a rather low diversity if each dog is closely linebred by himself. .

This is pretty much a concept my father has already used decades ago. Linebreed, outcross into unrelated blood, linebreed, outcorss, linebreed. He generally outcrossed into showlines because he wanted the structure and then linebred on Gildo. But outcrossing into showlines gave him the diversity that he otherwise would have lost.






 


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