Linebreeding on a male ancestor compared to a female - Page 1

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by xPyrotechnic on 30 August 2020 - 21:08

Whilst it is commonly known that the female holds more weight in the genetic predisposition in a mating, do they still have a greater weight than amale when linebreeding on a 2nd generation dog. Reason being is becuase i was researching Gomo vom Schieferschlo├č and i noticed that he is linebred on Bernd vom Lierberg and Ex vom Riedstern, and through past research a lot of the great DDR dogs are linebred on either of these 2. When looking at current great dogs such as Pike del Lupo Nero he is linbred on Fero whilst he also has Alexia del lupo nero as she is a great producer perhaps it is both of these things that made Pike superb, and then when you look at other great working dogs they are most of the time linebred on Fero. However i have not seen a great dog that has been linebred heavily on a female.

So does a male ancestor hold more weight when linebred on compared to a female, and the female holds more weight in the 1st generation breeding?

by ValK on 30 August 2020 - 22:08

well, line breeding on male dog justified mostly due to ability of male to procreate significantly higher quantity of offspring than female dog.
that ability equates to better chance to obtain more good quality dogs among greater number of produced dogs.
we simply don't know anything about poor specimens from that same breeding. they usually been swept under the carpet, far from eyes.



by duke1965 on 31 August 2020 - 04:08

as every dog and every combination is different, there is nothing to gain from general assumptions made over the years, which are mostly wrong anyway, or applied to that one breeding it was based on

if one wants to become a breeder, best is to get mentor and learn about understanding YOUR females qualities, what is genetic, what is trained behaviour, and how to select best suitable male for that specific female

in reality, most have A female, breed it to last champion, on order to sell the pups, and ,if lucky, produce a nice dog every now and then just by the numbers produced

There are NO magic formulas in breeding, each breeding is a new challenge in itself, linebreeding is only as good as the dogs used for breeding, same as outcrossing is, 


by apple on 31 August 2020 - 11:08

Male vs. female make exact same percentage of genetic contribution.

TIG

by TIG on 31 August 2020 - 18:08

Apple, not so. It has been proven in recent years that the female contributes more germ plasma than the male (>60%). Plus ONLY the female passes on the genetics 4 the mitochondria which is the energy powerhouse for each & every cell & therefore the body.

AND also remember the legacy of Secrtariat in Thoroughbreds.  Dissed as a producer of mares not stallions BUT only the girls could inherit and pass on the "big heart" gene  which contributed to his record breaking career. 

Also consider Mules & Hinny's. Horse/donkey crosses but the results differ greatly based on whether the sire(mules) or dam (hinnys) is the horse. Mules - obvious crossbreed different from both parents & sterile. Hinnys- much more horse like and fertile.


TIG

by TIG on 31 August 2020 - 18:08

Duke,

While on one level, I agree with your statement about no magic formulas... on another level I will take exception.

The end result-to a certain degree- is always a crap shoot. Mother nature has a sense of humor, sometimes perverted BUT you CAN improve your odds by paying attention , recording data & detail - keeping track and being brutally honest with yourself & others & rejecting kennel blindness AND always being willing to learn & striving to learn wh the op is doing with his questions.

If you pay attention you will learn over time that there are some formulas - not magic by any means & a result of all those other factors that CAN change the odds a bit ' that's why linebreeding & inbeeding came about. But once again go back to paying attention,  documenting etc because if you are looking for dogs with a great front & linebreed on Ch Great Front you only have a chance of getting them IF the intervening generations 1. inherited them & 2. passed them on. Otherwise you got bumpkas.bumpers.

It's well worth studying the pedigrees of some old time breeders & looking at the brews they concocted & how they did it.

Btw you may want to look up Lloyd Brackett a US GSD brreder that developed his own strain . To start you off  https://breedingbetterdogs.com/article/brackets-formula


Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 01 September 2020 - 02:09

TIG, a question : Battaglia's article on Brackett reads just like so many expositions on Show breeding I have read over the years, in that many authorities and judges have sung the praises of those few breeders who had a clear idea what they were breeding, basically for getting good correct conformation. But absolutely no mention of the dogs produced retaining any working ability. Not surprised by Battaglia's leaving that important element aside (he's an international 'all rounder'), but do you know whether Brackett himself ever wrote up anything about working potential in his breeding ?

by duke1965 on 01 September 2020 - 03:09

Tig, ANY succesfull breeder is successfull because its ability to understand and select the best genetics/qualities of the dog they have to breed at that moment, nowhere in the world will that individual choice, made in that point of time help anybody in the world making their breedingchoices, I can take even two sisters from one litter and both would need different breedingchoices, as they are different in genetic buildup themselves

there was a forummember that was really studying into statistics, formulas etc, but all that stuff will not translate well into breedingchoices, let alone breedingresults






 


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