Europe Breeders - Page 13

Pedigree Database


by apple on 15 January 2020 - 08:01

The SV introduced the Zuchtwert program/breeding value program because hips were not getting much better. The average value is 100, meaning a dog with a breeding value of 100 didn't improve or worsen hips. The lower the breed value score, the greater the increased expectation of a reduced risk of HD. It might help to use this system to select a pup from a breeding pair, but it is no guarantee of how a pup's hips will turn out. The Zuchtwert system doesn't identify any thing about a dog's genetics and the SV claims that HD is 75% environmental. I think you are getting wrapped around the axle in looking for a dog. Decide what traits you wants in a dog, your goals for the dog, and start to talk to breeders about what breedings they have are likely to produce. Papers don't really mean anything. It only tells you that the dogs have titles and their hip ratings. Other than that, papers tell you nothing about an individual dog or whether it was a good producer or not. The best Dutch Mal X's don't even have papers.


by nmcbs84 on 15 January 2020 - 09:01

Ok thank you. Now a curiosity of mine. How about DM in todays german shepherd breed? Is it something inherent to the breed that more or less could be unavoidable if bad luck happens when choosing the puppy? Is it something that through todays modern genetic tests could be worked, or is beeing worked, when mating to lower the incidence of this disease in the progeny? Is it getting more or less frequent? I believe DM is transversal to both working or show line right? Also i believe GSD is not the only breed affected by it, nonetheless it is very often on the top list of breeds affected by it. Unfortunatly i´ve seen myself cases and heard many stories about it.

by apple on 15 January 2020 - 11:01

You are going to limit yourself if you look for breeders who test for DM. The tests are not always accurate. It is a recessive genetic problem so both parents have to carry it in order for their offspring to develop it, and even if both parents test positive for the DM genes, it doesn't mean the pups will necessarily develop the disorder. I understand that you are looking for a healthy dog, but tests and breed value ratings for HD will not be as of much value to you than breeders who have developed a bloodline and know what their dogs have produced or even if they just have a few breeding dogs, know what they have produced. The only way to avoid the roll of the dice with a puppy is to buy an adult, and that is still no guarantee. That is why I suggested you focus more on what you want in a dog and what your goals are. If you are still debating between show and working lines, the first thing is to choose one or the other and go from there to learn about a breeding pair and what the dogs in their pedigree were like and what they tended to produce.


by nmcbs84 on 15 January 2020 - 13:01

No, about show vs working line of that i have no doubt, the second one. I want a protection/guard dog. Confident, strong nerves, well built/strong athletically. More of a defensive dog if you will. Like i said in the beggining of this thread i live in a farm so the balance between good guard capabilities and robust build/stamina would be good for the job. I have no intention whatsoever of show/sport competition. Obviously in all this health is very important but this is something like you said depends on the breeder knowledge of what their dogs tend to produce in the long term.
But let me ask you, i believe that some honesty/comitement (hobbyist or more comercial) is needed from the breeder in order for him to be open and frank about issues or not about health no or other points? Is it easy to find such a breeder(s)? Unless you have a close relationship with the breeder no? or some connections in the field, like someone you can trust to help you find such breeders? I mean i say this because im fairly new, for experienced owners/breeders it should be a bit more clear. Speaking of that

by apple on 15 January 2020 - 13:01

The right 70-75 pound dog can stop a man, so it sounds more like your just prefer a large, solid dog. You just can't know what a pup will mature into size wise. If you don't have a relationship with a breeder or have some people in the know, it can be very difficult to get accurate information about dogs. I would pm Duke on this forum. I think you could probably get what you want from him, but you have to remember that people breeding tough dogs often want them to go to their regular customers who are often military or law enforcement. You said you are in Portugal. Where are you willing to consider a pup from?


by nmcbs84 on 15 January 2020 - 14:01

My GSD has 88 pounds :) but he is becoming older and more relaxed. I try to cut food but i have some restrictions about food because kidney problems due to leishmaniasis (anyone who lives in south Europe know what im talking about). I used to give him more protein rich food and home made but now to not overload the kidneys i have to restrict protein. When younger he was around 80 pound and lean.
Anyway i talked with Duke but i believe he is not very familiar with DDR breeders. But i mentioned him DDR because it seemed to me the way to go for my purposes, might be wrong. And yes i agree that when you have connection you propably have more chances to get what you want.
Yes im in Portugal. Here the breeding culture is not so developed, mainly comercial breeders focused on sport/show, and a big enphasis on show line dogs.
Next to me i have Spain (but not familiar with any breeder). Anywhere in Europe for me is ok. France, Germany...

by apple on 15 January 2020 - 14:01

I recommend you detach from the DDR thing. It is a fad, not a real type of dog anymore. You can find a pup to use for personal/property protection from many different working lines. You are limiting yourself.

by duke1965 on 15 January 2020 - 16:01

DDR dogs are mainly bred for looks today,I trained and sold several and what I saw/experienced,I would not recommand for anything more than familydogs, but they can work as a deterrent for sure

other than that,I recomment to select individual dogs,for individual goals, regardless of their pedigree,but based on quality

here is a female I have now, 12 months, noDDR

by astrovan2487 on 15 January 2020 - 19:01

DM is not exclusive to GSDs but they are the most common breed to be diagnosed with it. Dosent matter if its a working line or show line. The problem with DM is the only way to make a 100% accurate diagnosis is by necropsy after the dog has died. Now I don't know anyone who would spend that kind of money on an older dog who has already died. It does not happen often that a dog is proven to have 100% had DM.

One thing I found interesting in dealing with multiple different vets while treating my dog's spinal issue, a lot of them suspected that DM is more rare than it seems and that more often than not the dog has a spinal cord injury, spondylosis, TV, or IVDD. All of these conditions are very common in GSDs, share similar symptoms, and usually effect older dogs just like DM. But unlike DM there are treatment options.

The DM genetic test is not 100% going to tell you a dog will never suffer from the disease, its just another tool you can use to keep the odds in your favor. Just like getting OFAs done on hips and elbows. Being that the DM test is very simple and cheap, I wouldn't myself buy a dog from a litter unless at least one of the parents is tested and is negative. There are many breeders who test for hips/elbows and DM, at least in the US.


by emoryg on 16 January 2020 - 11:01

That’s a nice young female in the video. Good size too.


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