by xPyrotechnic on 11 June 2019 - 17:06
Whilst looking at the other dogs they have bred they look nothing like the showlines of today although they have a lot of showlines in their pedigree. Some of their dogs also end up as police dogs which i was surprised i though that police dogs had to only have working line pedigrees. So my question is would combining both lines (if done correctly) be able to produce dogs that are good enough to be police dogs.
by duke1965 on 11 June 2019 - 18:06
possible, but you would have to put strong selection on both the showlines, and the workingline dogs you would use for that, I did such combination once, producing some great dogs and some great pets
if one wants to continue after F1 and or F2 generation, good things are possible
by johan77 on 11 June 2019 - 18:06
by Centurian on 11 June 2019 - 20:06
20 years ago I had a SL X WL but the rift although definitive could be bridged with some , at times some , good results. And not entirely predictable back then too . . Currently they have drifted to far apart for this crossing to result in BOTH a good working dog with the magnificent structure as I once had. The GS cross I had , was high V rating in structure and at 1 year old did a police demo off collar . Back then , 20 - 15 years ago . That was what a cross could potentially produce . But it won't today ...
If you talk with the most influential breeders in the world . Those that are the top of the breeding, either SL or WL , they will tell you the same as I have written .. I know... because I already have had many discussions with them ....
by duke1965 on 12 June 2019 - 03:06
by duke1965 on 12 June 2019 - 03:06
by Hundmutter on 12 June 2019 - 06:06
Also depends to some extent on what you personally (and those enthusiasts around you) see as that 'magnificent structure' Centurian speaks of. Some American show breeders' "magnificent" conformation of the 70s/80s is very much NOT my 'magnificent' of ... ever ! And I suspect not Centurian's, either. And yet there have also been many Working specimens down the years that have conformed to a physical structure I (as someone primarily involved with [European] Showdogs initially) would find perfectly acceptable. Many others however that have not. On BOTH sides of the Atlantic. Realise I am only talking about the phenotype here, but you cannot always judge a book by its cover ...
by Gustav on 12 June 2019 - 11:06
by Centurian on 12 June 2019 - 12:06
Gustav .. I had stated almost 20 years ago that an exceptional , SL X WL was possible .. But I will ask , in current day how reliable and predictable an result can one make with a SL X WL breeding whereby the progeny will excel in working and structure ? The aim is to have a 'plan' with reasonable predictable results. One breeding out of thousands of breedings to get one good result IMOp is not a great breeding program . And I accept what you wrote about the dogs ' competing in IPO ' [ for the moment as I did not follow DRR or Czech breedings] , but what I want to know , what about their structure .. has it improved , will it get / did it , get that dog to the top ratings of the Show Ring too ? . Because the two dogs [ SL X WL ] will get offspring , but something will get lost one way or the other. So I want to know specifically what lines in show, crosedd with WL had progeny that maintinened the same show rating level and structure , and whose progeny made it to the winner IPO podiums ? I would be also intertested to know which former IPO podium winner , who was crossed with SL , has progeny that has brought them to the IPO podium and also the high V or VA rating at the Bundessieger Show ?
If this has become common place and a norm , then I will stand corrected I will realize that I missed something through the years. Again , I have not followed DDR or Czech breedings through the last 10 -15 years and I humbly would be glad to become more knowledgeable and educated in this respect .. I always try to learn ...
by Centurian on 13 June 2019 - 02:06