Understanding pedigrees - Page 1

Pedigree Database


by k9trainergsd on 20 March 2019 - 21:03

I was wondering how you can tell where the kennels in the database come from? DDR, West German, Czech etc. How do you get started on understanding pedigrees? I can look up titles and health clearances but how do you get information on the kennels?

by apple on 21 March 2019 - 12:03

The first thing to learn is if the kennels are breeding working or show lines. Many serious breeders have websites that tell you something about the dogs they are breeding. There is no DDR, even though people say they are preserving the DDR lines, which, IMO, is more marketing than reality. There is some genetic influence from dogs coming from DDR lines. Also, it is more about the individual dogs in a pedigree than what country they come from. There are strong dogs from West German and Czech kennels and some that are not so strong. More and more, breeders are bringing in new genetics to refresh their bloodlines by mixing breedings with dogs from different countries, mainly Germany, Belgium, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Holland, Sweden and Denmark, and U.S. and Canadian kennels with working line dogs from imported bloodlines.
I think you see a greater influence on what sport certain lines are bred for or if lines are breed more for police work. I think you see this aspect more with Malinois than GSDs, as IGP is the primary sport for GSDs. With the Malinois, there is French ring, Belgian ring, Mondio ring, KNPV, etc. and dogs competing in those sports are bred for different traits in order to excel at their sport of choice. For example, Tiekerhook kennel in Holland breeds for a more extreme type of dog, but you mainly see them in IGP and not so much in KNPV or as police dogs.

by k9trainergsd on 08 April 2019 - 17:04

Thank you apple. That helps a lot.

by wyattmattei on 10 June 2019 - 21:06

Can someone please tell me how you would refer to my GSD's pedigree? I know
that his sire is an American working dog, but 2 generations back I don't know how
to read it. It looks like his dam's side is 2 generations removed from European lines.

Thanks in advance.... "Zeke Von Mattei" 2018 Male GSD


by xPyrotechnic on 10 June 2019 - 22:06

In the 6 generation there is Dragon von Felesenschlob who is from those ddr lines and Polly Venusina Sopka is a mix of ddr and czech lines. . So that means Xara vom Holtzberg is a working line dog who is a mixture of czech and ddr dogs and the rest are showline dogs.


by Sunsilver on 11 June 2019 - 04:06

Okay, I like to do pedigrees as sort of a hobby. Click on the 7 generation pedigree, and follow along...

The dam's pedigree is all German showline. The Kirschental kennel was extremely well known, and as well as competing in the annual German sieger show, they worked their dogs in herding (HGH is the German herding title.)

The sire's pedigree is an extremely mixed bag, with a lot of pet breeding (dogs have no working titles, no conformation titles and most haven't even had their hips x-rayed.) In the 6th generation, at the very top of the pedigree, you will see there are some white shepherds - again, no hip or elbow scores and no titles.

As you scroll down, you'll see some of the names repeated (line breeding) on the white sheperds, and some of the other dogs. The person entering the pedigrees hasn't even bothered to give registration numbers for some of the dogs, which is a big no-no, and under current rules means the dogs really should be deleted from the database.

Eventually, you'll come to some German show lines. They are all a uniform black and red in colour. Any dog with a VA, V, SG or G in front of its name has been shown under the German (SV) system, and been given a conformation rating, with VA being the highest. A registration number with the initials sz in front of it means the dog is registered in Germany, with the SV. IPO 1,2 and 3 and SCH 1, 2 and 3 are performance (Schutzhund) titles. HD is the hip rating. SV means the dog's hips have been scored under the German system, with A1 being the best. OFA is the N. American system, with hips being scored excellent, good, fair, borderline, mild dysplasia, etc.

Continue scrolling, and you will see some working line dogs (Felsenschloss) The FH2 after Tino's name means he has a level 2 German tracking title (Fährt Hund). As mentioned in a previous post, some of these dogs are from Germany, some are Czech and some are DDR (East Germany). Again, the initials in front of the registration number give the name of the registration body.

Below the blank spots in the pedigree, again there are some German show line dogs, then a bunch of AKC show line dogs, some with conformation titles, some with working titles in tracking obedience and (I think) agility. The UKC in front of some of the titles stands for the United Kennel Club, which is an alternative kennel club for people who don't want to show their dog in the American Kennel Club (AKC).

Hope this helps! If you want to know what sort of dogs a particular kennel breeds, just google the name, and find their website. Eventually you will get to know the more common names, and what they are breeding for.

Edit: a previous post stated 'there is no DDR'. That should read: There is NO LONGER a DDR registry, because East and West Germany were reunited in 1990. Any dogs born in East Germany before that date are legitimate DDR dogs (Deutsche Demokratische Republik).

Second edit: an above post lists Tino's name as Felsenschob. That is not correct. What LOOKS like a capital B in German is actually a character that doesn't occur in the English alphabet. It represents a double 's'. So the correct spelling of his name is what I've given above, Felsenschloss. 'Schloss' means 'castle'. 

That's your language lesson for today... Wink Smile




by Hundmutter on 11 June 2019 - 05:06

This is another example of that 'random' breeding we were talking about on another thred. Starting at the bottom of the pedigree we have high-line W German breeding in the tail-female, as Sunny points out. As soon as this line gets into the US breeding milieu however, all hell breaks loose.

Its impossible to know WHAT successive breeders were aiming to produce in their puppies - except flesh to sell, of course.


by Sunsilver on 11 June 2019 - 05:06

True, Hundmutter! And, oops, I was wrong about the dam's ancestry being 100% German show lines. Her sire line is mostly long-haired pets, and not very attractive ones at that! Red Smile

What WERE they thinking?? Roll eyes 

by duke1965 on 11 June 2019 - 05:06

LOL @ appel, that was a bunch of NON informationWink Smile

by wyattmattei on 17 June 2019 - 19:06

Thank you all for your input...I must say that this mating has now produced a titled dog in working and "B" conformation (with my Zeke). So, I feel that this has improved the GSD breed..thank you sunsilver...I posted this with any open mind....a working dog that can also be a beloved pet.. I believe this is the healthiest progression for the GSD
will post OFA hips and elbows next

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