by BlackMalinois on 09 November 2018 - 17:11
About police /sport training and from the real world there opinion about K9 today...ENJOY !!
by Jessejones on 09 November 2018 - 21:11
Will watch it tonight.
by Jessejones on 10 November 2018 - 04:11
The issue with equipment fixation was indeed mentioned.
Thanks Blackmal for your recommendation.
by Prager on 10 November 2018 - 05:11
by Prager on 21 November 2018 - 06:11
Sorry to burst the bubble here. I have a point to make after I watched the whole video. While this is otherwise pretty good video. I have a problem with one part of it. A big problem as a matter of fact. The kick into the spleen area of the GSD in the scenario depicting "test" starting at the timer 30:57 is atrocious. There is no need to endanger the dog's life by a kick with the front of the leather shoe into an area where there is a spleen ( under the ribs). The ruptured spleen may internally bleed the dog out in short time or the dog may slowly bleed to death for days. I have seen this done by a decoy about 25 years ago. The dog was dead in 35 minutes. I cringe when I see this
Also, there is no reason to push the dog past breaking point as they have done. Such "test" is damaging to a dog which could be trained better. In any case, such kick will stop ANY dog even their Malis. On top of it,.this was done in order to sell their dogs which is really bad. I do not care how well the rest of their training is. These guys do not love nor respect dogs.
Such kick could happen by accident but then it should not be proudly displayed in their marketting video. The fact that they showed this proves my points. These guys should not train dogs. They are willing to mentally and physically destroy a dog to make a point. I would let them train a stuffed one. They are a disgrace.
"First do no harm" applies to dog trainers too.
by duke1965 on 21 November 2018 - 07:11
by Jessejones on 21 November 2018 - 20:11
I understand what you mean Duke. I did see the kicks, and rewatched them a few times.
I perceived them to be not full force kicks. I saw them more as a pretend kick where the decoy enacted a swift kick, but upon getting his foot to the dog, just did a quasi-lift push without kick-force.
If it was indeed a real hard true kick, no, there is no excuse for that.
We all know in real life the bg might indeed kick the dog (although most probably just crumple to the ground in pain and dont want to move, begging to get the dog off), still, the dog should be used to the kick movement.... of course not a real kick in training or testing.
But, yeah, I hope it wasn’t a real kick too.
If you noticed though, the Dutch guys didn’t pansy around either.
by Prager on 21 November 2018 - 20:11
Oh, yeah it was a real kick and not lift. The kick did not slow down a bit and lifted the dog off the floor and spun him more then 180* and almost flipped him on his back. ( see slow motion.) I have been with dogs long enough to see the dog in a real pain. This dog was a green dog without any LE training, which was going to be donated to LE. To say that this dog like this without an LE training will get you killed after you kick him in under the ribs is stupid. The point is that they wanted to sell them one of their dogs so they needed to make this dog look bad. I'll tell you with confidence that I can make dogs look bad too. That is no art to be proud of yet I have worked in many kennels who used this unethical sales tactic to sell dogs.
On top of it they say that the dog was "undertrained" dog or in other words "green dog" But if you do what they did to unfinished or "undertrained dog" and do not let him win (as they did not) you cause a problem in future training and damage to the dog psyche who now know that he can lose. This is a baggage which they just created.
I am not known to be too soft on dogs during training but this makes me cringe.
by Prager on 21 November 2018 - 21:11
Also, sending a dog into water is poor tactics because it may get your dog drowned. I know of one real apprehension a few years back, where the BG was in above knee deep water drowning the dog while two fit officers were trying to subdue the bad guy using pepper spray and taser. The dog made it but it was not pretty. ( It was one of my dogs I have sold to LE. The dog would not let go even under water. )
by Jessejones on 21 November 2018 - 21:11
I didn’t see it that way...but I might have missed it. I will rewatch when I have the time. You wouldn’t by chance have the minute marker? Of course probably not. Who would, LOL.
What you describe as sales tactics sounds quite awful. A million times worse than selling used cars back in the day.
About the water...yes, all the bg needs to do is hold the dog under. I‘ve always thought that was excessive and dangerous for the dog. Just a little water in the lung, can do a lot of harm.
Ok, if we are going deeper into the subject matter....Here we go...
Even though this was an excellently made video production, I have always not liked the public videos of training dogs for LE or PP. YouTube is full of them....and the unsavory among us are doing that to dogs around the world.
No experience..just dumb testosterone of young kids and men.... getting a dog all jacked-up and agitating it to make a video for the cool factor. Not realizing or caring that it is just stupid and is animal abuse.
Unfortunately, I think we are only at the beginning of that trend....
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