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by rcasallas on 31 October 2018 - 17:10

Can someone give me a tutorial on the gsd breed survey and what data is collected from the dog? how is this data used to select a suitable mating pair? I'm not a breeder just love the GSD breed and want to learn.

by Gertrude Besserwisser on 31 October 2018 - 18:10

Breed Survey Requirements

GSDCA BREED SURVEY ENTRY FORM
If all of the requirements below have not been complied with, your breed survey will not be accepted for submission to the SV. All German Shepherd Dogs must be identifiable by microchip. The dogs must be two years old.

Original Documents to be Submitted
FOR DOGS BORN IN THE U.S.
1. The current AKC Registration Certificate.
2. A 4-generation AKC Certified Pedigree. (USCA pedigrees are not acceptable.)

DOG BORN IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY MUST HAVE
1. The original SV or FCI recognized 4-generation pedigree issued in the country where the dog was born.
2. All transfers of ownership must be completed and submitted if not recorded on the certified pedigree.

Additional Documents That Must Be Submitted
1. OFA Hip Certificate, SV “a”-stamp or other SV recognized hip certification. SV Elbow certification. (The USCA pedigree with an “a”-stamp can only be used as proof of hip certification.) OFA Elbow Certificate not acceptable.
2. The original scorebook with proof at least of a SchH1, IPO1 or HGH under an SV/SV Foreign judge with a minimum score of 80 in protection; and proof of an AD and BH under an SV/SV Foreign judge. (The AD is NOT required for dogs over 6 years of age.)
3. A show card from classes over 12 months of age with at least a “G” rating from an SV/SV Foreign Judge. (“Show ratings” from USCA “conformation” judges are not acceptable.)
4. The original Breed Survey Report must be submitted for the following: a Breed Survey for Life, a New Survey after Lapse, a Survey Class Improvement or a Survey Extension for One Year. (For an Extension of Survey for one year, submit the proof of breeding and certification from a veterinarian of pregnancy of at least 42 days on the day of the Breed Survey; or for whelping of a litter within 42 days of the Breed Survey. The hosting club Breed Survey Fee will apply. An SV Körmeister must have awarded all original Breed Surveys.

At the survey, the dog must successfully pass a defense against attack on handler and a courage test. For the defense against attack on handler, it must heel off lead until the helper comes out of the blind. It must engage and bite, and then release on command and guard. For the courage, it must engage the helper and bite, and release on command and guard. After this is successfully completed, the judge will evaluate the dog stacked, coming and going and gaiting. He will measure the dog, weigh the dog, and check that all teeth are there.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 31 October 2018 - 18:10

How many Surveys are held in the US each year, how widely geographically are they held, and how many dogs are Surveyed per year on average ? Anybody keeping statistics ?

by rcasallas on 31 October 2018 - 19:10

Thanks for the very detailed information. How does a good respectable breeder determine what is the best pairing for his dogs? I see many breeders just throw 2 dogs together without any thought to it. is the information from the breed survey limited to the physical appearance only or is there a more detailed report on the temperament of the dog?


susie

by susie on 31 October 2018 - 19:10

Very seldom/almost never the judges will comment about suitable studs.
It's about the knowledge of the breeder, it's a free world; but in case you ask the judge may have an idea...

Hundmutter, you need to look into the trial/breed survey results, but
KKL (first time) only a few dogs/year, I'd say less than 200
KKL (for lifetime) some more.
Most dogs are trained and breed surveyed in Europe.

Maybe someone counted the numbers and proofs me wrong...I'd love to be wrong in this case..
Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 31 October 2018 - 21:10

@Susie, yeah I'd guessed it wasn't a huge number, compared with total GSD population of the States. Just curious about how it all actually works there.

by rcasallas on 01 November 2018 - 01:11

Thank you guys 👍
Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 01 November 2018 - 09:11

One thing I noticed, when reading both German Kor reports and UK Surveys, is that the Surveyor will quite often recommend the type of partners (of either sex) which might be suitable for the dog being Surveyed.  Some SV judges do this in verbal critiques on their winning line up at Shows, too. They might suggest e.g. that you find a dog of better front angulation, to try to correct something lacking in the dog being Surveyed.  But it is then down to the individual breeder/owner to find a suitable breeding partner for their dog(s) from among all those potentially available ! * Rarely would you see a specific bloodline / Kennel mentioned (and individual named studs just about never).

* Easier to act on a German recommendation when you are in Germany, or an English suggestion when in the UK; distances and numbers not so huge, dogs better known as individuals, and so on. I can't imagine how an American would manage this without arranging matings in Germany for import, rather than finding a suitable bitch 'at home';  unless they were very well versed in what plusses and minuses to look for in the dogs involved. Choosing breeding partners in the US to comply with suggested factors must be a real headache, unless you stick to a fairly tight circle of other breeders.

And 'invisibles' e.g.Working performance traits must be even more of a minefield unless for instance you only ever consider 'podium dogs' for studs, because high scores provide some guidance.

Small wonder puppies are a 'crap shoot'.


by Gustav on 01 November 2018 - 20:11

Hundmutter, how is transportation not an issue for importing dogs into United States from Europe( minimum 3000 miles) and its such an issue in the United States when it comes to breeding dogs???
Also, how many Sch clubs/ trials are there in United Kingdom,( you compared Germany and UK to America) ? There are between 200& 250 clubs in the US. Not all have conformation shows but are required to hold at least one performance trial a year. There are 6-8 regions which have regional trial and conformation shows and at least one Seiger and IPO nationals every year.
The size of the country is not as important as the opportunity presented within the country contrary to the narrative you try to repeatedly project. There are plenty of people who breed, title, and Korung their dogs in the states depending on their preference. The difference in America and Germany, principally is the largest segment in the states are performance dogs/titles/trials, and the larger segment in Germany is the show dogs/titles/trials.
Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 01 November 2018 - 21:11

Gustav, I am not 'trying to repeatedly project' anything. And I have not said transportation into the US from Germany isn't an issue. I'm simply referring to the apparent difficulties of making informed breeding decisions when you can't meet and have hands on the stud dogs you are considering - it must be hard when such distances are involved across the US. How much travelling around can you do to make sure you have seen as many dogs as possble ?
It strikes me as being difficult enough to get together enough information when you have a much smaller country, such as the UK, where if you are prepared to take time to travel 300 miles every weekend you might get around enough Shows or Trials to see the dogs you want to in the flesh.
I do not know exactly how many SchH clubs currently exist in the UK, but I doubt it is nearly enough ! Nobody is more critical than I about the lack of progress in getting our UK dogs worked, rather than just paraded round in circles. Or about the limits on that score of our UK Survey. What I would LIKE to see is more facilities - and interest - in both sides of the breed, the Show / conformation AND the Working / performance people to come closer together; whereas I feel that what is happening now is that they are splitting, on lines similar to development in America, and thus becoming further apart.
Plus, I am thinking across the whole of the breed, in all countries: there are many, many more GSDs in existence than ever get Surveyed, or Trialled, or entered in any sort of Show. And that is and always has been a real pity. I'm really not sure what you are accusing me of saying ?


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