american members - Page 3

ValK Q: as for "reputable breeder" - who and how does set criteria, which distinguish the level of reputability for this or that breeder?

Hans A: Good question. It depends on the satisfaction of the clients. More clients of yours are satisfied more reputable you are. The business schools say that about 4%-5% of all customers of any kind will not be happy no matter what you do. ( They are unreasonable nuts, psychos, scammers and so on) If you are standing within 5% or less then you are a reputable breeder. If your percentages are higher then 5% then you need to work hard on being a better seller and better producer of anything, including pups.
LOL before you jump at me that is what basic business books talk about.

Joanro: Valk, when people call me, and the first question is " how much do they cost?" "And how much do the parents weigh?"

I tell them none available, after I ask are they buying by the pound?

Hans: You see those are exactly that type of people who need help to make the right decisions and the correct answer makes them hopefully vote for the correct type of the dog. And that is good for GSD. If I would reject them then they will go down the list and vote with their dollar for some 145 lb monstrosity and thus promote the crappy oversize, blue, albino over-angulated mastiff-headed or whatever GSdogs.
Most people buying dogs are not experts with unlimited funds. Thus I am glad when they ask how much the pups cost because I do not want to waste mine nor their time if their funds are not in my price range. As the saying goes: "Why to milk a dead cow?"
If they ask about the weight I'll tell them what it is and then I explain them about standard and longevity of medium or smaller or basically stnadard dogs and another aspect of size. If people still insist on giant dogs then I say "well I breed for standard and I do not have what you are looking for. Please take care and have a nice afternoon and if you have some more questions or if you change your mind about the giant size of GSD then please feel free to call me. The advice over the phone is free."

Prager, I would not waste my time trying to educate the people who have a bottom dollar and absolutely want the the only kind of gsd worthy of them to own...

the " Old tymee Big Bone" that weighs ' bout hunerd and fity pounds! And they usually want to add to their byb for rent money.

And make no mistake, they will be the ones who think they need to educate you because they Know ALL about German shepARDS.... and they are uneducable.
I don't need to sell a pup to people that ignorant, and who WANT to remain ignorant.
Let me put it this way for you....it's like trying to educate people like entwerfer Haus on your thread " this add!!!"

I will go out of my way helping people who want help. Those "how much and how big"....nope.

@ Rick: So people having a different opinion then you are unquestionably suckers and/or produce BS. Got it.

Prager, I'm not real sure what we disagree on. The OP asked about reasonable puppy prices in the U.S. MY only opinion is that pretty much any need can be met for less than $2000.00. and for that price, as I said, an experienced person can get what would be considered a very high quality pup, not BYB stuff.

also I did not call anyone "unquestionably" sucker or accuse anyone of "producing" BS or producing anything for that matter. I do not know what anyone is producing without seeing it first hand.

I did try to answer the OP question to the best of my experience.

and I will say again, high price does not always equate high quality in a puppy. high price for an older dog can be justified as a person can tell exactly what they are getting.

Rick Fair enough. That is your opinion.
My opinion is different and more complex. I would like to preamp my post with the statement that I am talking about reputable breeders and not a scam artists. usually scam artists will not last long. especially in the world of internet.
At first I am only saying that the price itself is a psychological consideration to many people. Some people just psychologically will not buy dog for low price or for high price. Trust me whne I tell you that it is just about impossible to change a mind of the buyer on their precoceved price or price range.

the second I would also stress out that the price of the pup is dependent on the breeding reputation and business reputation of the selling breeder. To find people who know more about breeding beyond throwing two dogs (even two good dogs) together is very difficult. The knowledge of matching and dovetailing -compensation of the qualities and shortcomings of the dog's genotypes requires extensive knowledge of the dogs on the pedigree of the pup. Such knowledge comes with decades of experience breeding and training these dogs. This is nothing someone can learn in some seminar. If someone is very good at that then he has a reputation to produce such dogs. That knowledge and subsequent reputation is worth money and customer who knows breeders with such reputation will galdly pay more to get to get a pup or dog from such breeder. As I said supply and demand. There are many breeders who will say that they will sell the pup cheaper and will accuse others of ripping people off, but when you look at what they product you can see why they need to charge less. Now there may be exceptions but those are usually not serious breeders who want to improve the breed but they are breeders who produce 1 litter or so a year as a hobby. The reason in this category what people really pay for is the higher probability of higher quality.

The third point is the service the breeder provides and the warranty is of a tremendous consideration by the buyer and breeders who provide it can then sell the pup for more money. Good warranty must cover the buyer and the seller equally and fairly.
All this gives the buyer a peace of mind for which he or she is willing to pay more than for the BYB pup or even good breeder who does not have such general reputation. The fact is that people vote with their dollars and nobody can change that by telling them that they should pay more or less.
I have learned and explained that in the story with Burt Raynolds which I have described here before.

So according to you, anyone who only produces one litter a year are not producing quality gsd?

Improving the breed? If one starts with sound dogs, and produced sound pups, how can they " improve" the crap that others are producing? They can't...and niether can breeders who produce thousands of puppies a year.
And according to you, only if a breeder produces...how many do you require to call them real breeders? One litter a month? Two litters a month? Mass producing and not having time and resources to do justice to each mother and litter?
Putting them in a shed like a bunch of brood sows left to themselves to raise their pups?
Or is planning each breeding a year in advance, having people who are waiting for a pup, and giving ultimate care for mother and pups just not good enough to qualify for " good breeder"?

A hobby breeder only means the breeder does not live off the sale of puppies....it's done because of a love for the breed and only breeding pairs of dogs which are going to produce the best possible pups and make sure they go to quality homes where the dog will be taken care of a not end up with someone you always refer to, throwing the dog away, because the person did not pay an exhorbitant price for it?

I have Given many dogs to people who still own them, the dogs live with the families in their home,
( with one exception, which I need not talk about here but the experience taught me a valuable lesson ) , are guardians of the families with children....those families would not take any amount of money for their dog, and they didn't aquire the love and appreciation for their dog because of stinking money!!

I don't NEED to make money at the risk of my pups' welbeing ... selling to whoever has the high dollars so the whatever- payment can be covered!

PS: I have a good warrenty...but guess what? When quality dogs with excellent care are bred, instead of mass producing for maxmum monetary gain, I have not had any requests to replace any pups...I have however offered to buy a couple pups back when I discovered the home I placed them in was a big mistake...you know, like the goofball in your thread, " This add!!! "

 @ Joanro

People who make a living out of puppies need to produce, and they need to sell...no matter the quality...

Susie: People who make a living out of puppies need to produce, and they need to sell...no matter the quality...


Yes, Susie, no matter the quality of the pups sold...and no matter the quality of the BUYER !!!

i just want to say thanks for all the information and help

Just out of curiosity: are you thinking about

1. breeding,
or are you thinking about
2. buying?

In case of 1. :
The best pedigree won't help in case the parents didn't inherit the traits you want to breed for...

In case of 2. :
Whatever you want to find in a puppy take care the parents do have these traits.