Is This A Dwarf GSD? - Page 2

I am happy for Mali that she is in a home that will care for her.

 

Maybe I am not interpreting your post correctly, but it seems to me from your claims that you breed animals with a "commercial" outlook. I am of the opinion that breeding dogs should be an undertaking of passion and care, not with an eye to how much a person can profit. But that's just me....

Horses most certainly was for commercial purposes, which by the way never produced a profit! French Lop Show Rabbits were reproducing faster than we could sell them, some got sold for $10 for dinner,lost money there as well. Racing pigeons was just a hobby that a friend got me into. Most people no idea the amount of gambling that is involved in that sport. Made me quit when guns came out at the end of one race.

Now, As far as dogs, I am retiring (again) next year and this has been and will be my passion. So far I haven't thought about or even tried to understand the commercial part of my dogs. I am spending about $1000 to every $1 profit returned, so I don't think you could call it a commercial operation. My only point I was trying to make was that this isn't my "1st genetic rodeo" I was trying to reinforce my experience concerning the idea that any kind of breeding for Confirmation based on "looks" is a hope and prayer that has no scientific basis. The number one statement that I keep hearing among DDR breeders is that everyone is breeding out of the same gene pool. All I am saying is there are ways to change that. The world is changing and the need for family protection is becoming more and more necessary. I breed for the sheer thrill that I get when I see a puppy go to a loving family and I know he will protect them with his life. I have never have and I don't believe I will ever see a profit.......At least that's what my wife keeps telling me. :)

By the way, I don't need to make a dime on my dogs. But I will still be found doing my best to make the breed better, and prove that new lines can still be made using sound genetic understanding and some great dogs that have common ancestory. I can't for the life of me ever see any financial profit coming in what I am attempting to do with the dogs. :) I have given away dogs to friends and family. Would you like for me to give you one? You probably will never be family so I guess we'll have to be friends. :)

 

 

spent $1000 to make $1... you must be broken more even than president Trump :)
in regards of nowadays "DDR breeders", they are doomed for failure. i'm regretfully must say that very much doubt, even with most advanced genetics know-how you'll be able to help them.

I will build the wall and Mexico will pay for it! Let's make DDR great again!

Thank you for clearing that up for me and possibly other readers.

So far as 'new lines can still be made' - as long as you are using pure GSD genetics then I wonder how this would be possible. AFAIK you cannot 'make' a new line but can breed influential animals whose genes will be heavily-used for many breedings. Perhaps this is what you mean?

Rhumphrey, I get where you are coming from, I really do. Mali probably would not be my ideal of a foundation brood bitch if I were about to start out as a hobby (or a 'commercial') breeder. Not directly due to the Ricketts - if that is what it was - that has left her with such awful deformity of the pasterns; although I would be extremely worried about any propensity to pass on some malabsorbtion genetics, whether or not it was actually Ricketts.

My mentor bred a male pup who was actually worse than Mali for not just his pasterns were dropped and extended in that way but his back legs were also shortened. (Normal head & body structure). That case was put down to Ricketts, as nobody could come up with a better guess, and nothing diagnostic - but (environmentally AND nutritionally) Putz was raised exactly the same as the rest of his littermates, (and they were raised successfully, as were her litters before and since; she was a very experienced Show breeder) yet he showed these problems from around 4 months of age. It was treated as Ricketts, he got extra raw beef and as much sunlight as we could give him (sometimes that's difficult in England !) and my mentor was guided by an established Great Dane breeder who had an interest in and good deal of experience of Ricketts. I was not surprised by Luna's question, as indeed when this first took shape, Dwarfism was a condition we wondered about (although we soon figured out that it wasn't !)

Putz was taken out of the breeding programme and placed in a pet home. The symptoms reversed a little bit, he eventually gained a slightly better height, but he was always an odd looking GSD.

I'm assuming as you have her papers that this wasn't a normal rescue situation and that you know more about Mali than you have posted here ?

The breeder of one of my females was lied to by a man who bought two of her pups. He lived in a small, cluttered apartment, not the nice house with a big yard he claimed to own, and the pups spent nearly the entire day in crates.

When she got the dogs back, their pasterns were almost down on the ground, like the dog in the photo, while the other dogs in the same litter had normal pasterns. So, lack of exercise can definitely affect the pasterns.

I've seen rickets in animals, and it doesn't look like that. It causes the bones to bow out sideways (bow-legged) Malnutrition definitely could have been a factor, yes, but I doubt it was rickets.

Rhumphrey, totally get where you are coming from. The show line dogs have backed themselves into a genetic corner, and you can see it happening in the working lines too, with many of them having far too much Troll, Timmy, Fero and other popular sires in their pedigrees.

Wow, that is one heck of a lot of linebreeding in Mali's pedigree! 

A "line" of dogs is not produced by the names on a pedigree but by intense genetic manipulation and very selective breeding. It involves all methods of breeding but is dependent on vigorous culling from the breeding and genetic gene pool. BTW culling doesn't mean killing, it simply means making sure the species that is not the top desirable doesn't go on to be used in other breeding programs. This is done through neuter contracts when they are placed in pet homes. It means placing dogs for free or very small re homing fees with no papers. It someone truly has the skill and money to breed using all methods or "tools" to develop a superior dog than what they started with, then they are creating a new "line" of dogs. There will always be homes that desire pets and usually a breeder such as this maintains a list for his culls. By the way, these culls can and usually are better that the normal pet dogs being sold on Craigslist or other ways. To determine if your intent is pure, all you have to do is look to the percentage of culls coming from a litter. Breed the best genes to the best genes for 8-10 generations and you can begin to set "type" into a "line" and the line will then take on characteristics and traits that far superior than the original bloodstock. The intent is to set the dominant genes in an animal that will produce the desired out come every time it is bred. But be warned you WILL use breeding practices that include inbreeding and back masking and this is usually done without general outside knowledge by those sincere in the efforts to improve the breed. Those who are ignorant of true breeding practices to improve a species will always have something negative to say You have to know it is time to line breed and when it is time for an out cross injection. You must have a goal of what you wish to produce at the end of the day. It will generally take 8-10 generations to create something new. A new line that has it's own dominate characteristics and traits. It's expensive and very rarely can be profitable. It done by those truly passionate about a breed and a sincere desire to produce a better example of the species.

I've seen a few photos dwarf GSDs, as they seem to be a lot more common in recent years. I've heard of the foxy face they often have, which is another reason I thought Mali might be one as she does look very foxy faced to me, her ears really remind me of fox ears they way they stick out even.

Thanks Rhumphrey7 for all that info and for saving Mali as well. I've taken in and rehomed dogs many times in the past and it is very hard
to do when you do not have much money. So when nice people like you, help out people like me, it's further proof there is still good in human beings. It is very rewarding for me when the dogs I rescue, find loving homes, so even though I have little money to spare I still try my best
to rescue any animal I can.

I do wonder if maybe Mali was trapped in a crate or cage in her younger years, as I have heard that can cause some sort of leg and paw development issues. Someone had a rescued a GSD that was trapped in a small wire crate by it's abusers most of the time from 8 weeks old up til it was rescued as an adult. They said the dog's paws were deformed and referred to them as "pancake paws" from how flat they were.

Also I own several different old GSD books as well Rhumphrey7, and 2 happen to be "This Is The German Shepherd". I love old GSD books as they have photos of how the breed use to look and tons of awesome info on the breed. I love the very wolfish look they had back then that showed they originally had actual wolf blood in them, compared to the modern bulky Mastiff like show bloodline GSDs that are now so common. My own black GSD girl Sasha, is very wolf like as she is from working bloodlines and they try to stay true to the original breed standard. I find it funny how some GSD breeders claim the long haired GSDs are the "old original coat" of the breed.
Sure a few long haired herding breed dogs were used first to create the GSD, but the coat was not desired, they were only bred for their working ability. Long coats equal more hair to get tangled in things while outside working, you having to do a ton of grooming on said hair, the dog over heating in the summer, and when shedding season comes you have enough fur to make a full length coat for you to wear during the winter.

Here's a dwarf GSD alongside a normal one. This dog has pituitary dwarfism, which also causes the coat to be very sparse. Many pituitary dwarves die at a young age. Nemo was an exception: he lived to be 15!

 

http://shawlein.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/dwarf1.jpg

 

Dwarves more often look like this:

http://gsdpituitarydwarfism.weebly.com/uploads/4/4/5/3/44539389/9023219.jpg?496

That Nemo had such a good coat, and lived such a long, healthy life is a tribute to the excellent care his owner, Tigg, gave him. He was a bit bigger than most dwarves, at around 30 lbs. so he probably was producing at least some pituitary hormone.